All of you who CHOOSE not to vaccinate your children

[UniqueAndAmazing]

Do you realise that's the reason why there's now an epidemic of measles in Wales?

You know children with auto-immune problems, children with cancers, children with allergies that mean they can't be medicated, children who react badly to drugs?
You know them? They're suffering because of you not wanting to vaccinate your child.

You have no medical reason for not vaccinating, but plenty of reasons TO vaccinate.

You are causing a whole generation of children to be endangered from a preventable disease.

Measles can be fatal
(that means it can kill )

someone up thread said that it was a difficult time to have a small child & decide on vaccinating when wakefield made his statement (due to mad cow disease being around at the same time ).

well try having a small child now amongst this outbreak, one who is too young to vaccinate its pretty hard.

YANBU OP

ruby - 14 years ago, I thought it was a scaremongering story.

I even checked with my mum to see if i'd had it.
she said that there were always worries around it, even without the autism "link", but that most were because it was such a new thing.

I had measles, my little sister had mumps.
I wouldn't wish rubella on anyone.

Unique - we have visited countries with our children that asked us to certify our children has TB vaccination. Our Ds1 (now 13) really needs to have a Heaf test.

I telephoned a TB nurse when he was 6 and asked for a vaccination and she insisted we didnt need the TB vaccination - I am a biochemist by training and she was very defensive.

You can get your GP to do it if you are worried. Frankly I woud not take the chance. You never know which countries you children will end up visiting in their life.

MY DC school had a big ourbreak of measles and suspected measle in the Autumn term.

We had a panicky few days after I received a standard letter from the Dept of Health telling me my youngest DC had not been vaccinated and to do so asap. I am pro vaccination and have always taken mine along for any vaccines on offer. I started to panci that because we had moved house 5 times(5 different parts of the UK) in the 1st 5 years of DC2 life that we had been missed somewhere. After checking the little book and also getting the helpful HV at the local GP surgery to check it became clear that DC2 thankfully was fully vaccinated.

However, the schools term was in tatters. So many schools trips/exchanges/matches/regional competitions/concerts and even some lessons had to be cancelled because of the links with other schools,children and specialist staff (such as music teachers) that move between schools under the rules of quarantine enforced by the Dept of Health. The Head teacher has now said full immunisation will be a requirement in order for anyone to join the school (independent boarding school) - basically no full vaccines - no entry, in order to prevent the same ever happening again.

Thankfully those who were ill with measles had only mild symptoms and recovered quickly without complications but they neednt have been ill at all nor put lots of other people at risk, had they been immunised - and those from whom ever they caught it from.

I do have massive sympathy with those who cannot be vaccinated but little for those that have a simple decision and chose no because they are ignorant to the very real risks or choose to think it wont affect them. My DC1 was late being immunised because she spent alot of her toddler years in hospital for a long term health condition. Now 14yo - she leads a normal life, fully vaccinated not a straightforward choice at the time - i admit) because she is vulnerable - if she caught something like measles the outcome with her pre existing medical condition is unlikely to be a good one.

I do think some people think that with modern medicine measles is not a worry. Even chicken pox (more common and I am not aware of a vaccination for chicken pox) can be a killer. There was a mumsnetter only a couple of months back with a very very ill son with complications from chicken pox who was hospitalised and I think he is still not fully recovered. Modern medicine is a marvellous thing but its not a simple fix for these horrible diseases. TB is another on the way back with a strain resistant to anti biotics. Thats a whole other discussion though because that had been 100% eredicated in this country a few years ago.

The single vaccines used to be available free on the NHS though.

If parents didn't want to or couldn't have the triple, they could have the singles. Then the gov didn't renew the licence for them and they were only available privately for a fee.

The gov has had long enough to see that bringing back singles would be a good idea.

15 yrs I think it is since singles were no longer available on the NHS, maybe a bit longer.

Simply restating that it was safe obviously didnt do the trick.

And this is simply because NO drug are ever 100% safe.

In most cases, we always take into account the patient choice re his health and what sort of treatment to get.
When my PIL got prostate cancer he was asked if he was happy for surgery to remover the prostate or if he wanted to leave it a bit longer. he was told of the side effects of the surgery. And the risks associated with not doing anything.

But with vaxs, the only thing we hear about is heard immunity and how people not vaccinating are putting everyone else in danger.
We hear how vax are protecting so many children and how the rates of measles, TB etc.. are going down.
But do we ever hear about the risks? Are they ever officially acknowledged? No they aren't.
I believe this is because people would probably go against vax if they knew the dangers of vax. So we don't talk about it. Any side effects like the ones described before are rejected as being just 'anecdotal' or just' coincidence'.

As a side note, I talked to a paed about side effect of the MMR. I told him I though the issues ds had were linked with it. He said 'Oh but we have never been able to show a relationship between x problem and the MMR'.
I told him 'True. But we have never shown that there is NO relationship either have we'.
He did stay silent a for long while and then acknowledged it. It's not because we haven't been able to prove that there is no relationship yet that there isn't.
Just as Einstein talked about relativity but couldn't prove it for years. That didn't mean he was wrong or relativity didn't exist. We just didn't have the right tools to prove it.

Badvoc - I agree that asking the parents of those children now being vaccinated at the clinics in Wales why they may have chosen not to vaccinate earlier would be a really valuable opportunity to plan for communication strategies around future immunisation programmes.

Anyone know if that question is being asked? Would be fascinating to see the results.

yy, it would.

The trouble with that guitar is that a lot of the children going to those clinics aren't the ones that missed the MMR 10-15 years ago. From what I've read the majority of the children attending the clinics are babies between 6 months and a year; and 2 year olds having their booster early - ie. children that would have had the MMR anyway, just not now. There are still thousands of children and adolescents in the Swansea area who have never reviewed a measles vaccination

I completely agree with you Nickel, and you've put it very well! I am currently looking after my 8mo who has a temperature following her MMR, given 4 months early. I am actually extremely grateful that she has been given it, and hoping that the reaction she has had means that her little body is developing lots of lovely measles antibodies

My 9 year old Autistic son has an opinion on this, he has an opinion on everything for that matter. We live in North Wales but the school have issued Welsh Assembly measles guidance about being jabbed now because so many people haven't. DS is in a discussion loop every time it gets mentioned about being alive and having a brain that works differently to the majority is better than being dead. His opinion is why do people even think about it?

As the mum of a wonderful, bright, but regularly very challenging Autistic child I do understand why people think about it, long and hard. DS was different from day 1. He had the jab but in his case other than a very grizzly off colour day or so (we all react badly to jabs in this household) I don't feel there was a link to his Autism. His younger brother and recently his younger sister have also had the jab. DD's slight Autistic traits also predate the jab.

What i feel is most damaging isn't the people who are in debate here about their personal choices. Its the people, of whom I know a few, who opt out because they remember hearing something bad about MMR. The people who take the head in the sand approach. They think they are doing the best for their children because its a bit scary to actually ask anything about it. That in my opinion is what is so damaging about the original report - the stain from the fear remains even though the original report is somewhat discredited and its content was not widely understood or accessible for interpretation by the average person on the street.

Yes, I just think they have really missed an opportunity there I'd they haven't.
The cynic in me feels its a money issue (as most issues the in NHS are it seems) and they don't want to know the answer!

Great post MisForMum

that's exactly right - a lot of people who opt out do so because they heard something.
It's those people who haven't even got the strength of conviction, they just think there "might be something wrong with it"

When Wilf was small there was a very good medical reasons why i didnt have him vaccinated against MMR.....however in light of recent outbreaks i will be ringing the Matron at his college on Monday morning to discuss him having it now!

My non professional understanding with why the single vaccines weren't available on NHS was because of the number of visits required to get full cover. There is potential to miss some of the series of six vaccines and so not be fully protected for example if you move house, GP's etc. it was thought the combined jab would give better heard protection.

Disclaimer: I read this somewhere a few years ago but i can't quote my source.

yes, that's one of the reasons.

there were more reasons to do it together than singly.

but i don't think they should have refused the option.
maybe just not publicized it.

These threads are incredibly upsetting. I wish people could moderate how they discuss this issue. It's hard enough tbh.

OP - your post was absolutely not pointless. I think you make a very important point. Wakefield has been entirely discredited. If your child is healthy and able to be vaccinated without any increased risk factor then I believe you have a moral obligation to do so. There is a small risk associated with almost everything we do crossing the road, riding a bike etc. That does not mean we should not do those things.

Yes, when our eldest DD was due her first MMR I started reading more about it as I had heard vaguely about risks and remember reading 'stuff in the newspapers' but nothing more concrete than that. At the time I looked into the single vaccines as an option. Then after spending quite a long time reading various articles and speaking to a consultant immunologist (informally as friend of my parents) I took an informed choice to go ahead with the vaccines. I may not have made that choice if I had just relied on the 'stuff I remembered from the newspapers'.

When I was a baby (late 70s) there was a scare about the whooping cough vaccine and link to brain damage. My parents (both medics) chose not to have me vaccinated. I had whooping cough.

Does that mean every time a new vaccine comes out for a different disease like chicken pox, the common cold etc, parents who elect not to get them for their children are irresponsible?

Just out of interest, op, do your dcs have every vaccine against every possible illness in this country?

Measles is a nasty disease that's why my dcs have had the MMR. I think there is an awful lot of scare mongering about mumps though and would rather have not immunised them against that.

I detest this lecturing of parents as to what they should do for the good of others. It sounds very sanctimonious.

Haven't read whole thread yet but reaction to OP is basically ....
rather harsh and perhaps not as helpful as it could be, but possibly true enough.
My DC's haven't been vaccinated because the whole thing scared me when they were babies and I found it hard to make a decision (was possibly depressed, certainly rather over-whelmed by responsibility)
But now they're older I'm planning to ask for a catch-up programme of vacs, particularly as they're even more likely to need them as they start doing more traveling.
I think it's quite encouraging really how many people are coming forward now to get their DC's vaccinated. There's little benefit I feel in berating them/us for not having done it already

"There is a small risk associated with almost everything we do crossing the road, riding a bike etc. That does not mean we should not do those things"

ChompieMum, we all make decisions based on the risk vs the need or desire to do things. You cannot possibly compare the giving of a vaccination to a healthy person with crossing the road. We need to cross roads in order to function in UK society. We do not need to have or give to our children potentially damaging vaccinations.

why are you laughing at that diet Shrosaw? Thats pretty much the immune boosting diet my child's paediatrician recommends when they have any virus. From a cold upwards. Especially given they dont have any appetite.