All of you who CHOOSE not to vaccinate your children

[UniqueAndAmazing]

Do you realise that's the reason why there's now an epidemic of measles in Wales?

You know children with auto-immune problems, children with cancers, children with allergies that mean they can't be medicated, children who react badly to drugs?
You know them? They're suffering because of you not wanting to vaccinate your child.

You have no medical reason for not vaccinating, but plenty of reasons TO vaccinate.

You are causing a whole generation of children to be endangered from a preventable disease.

Measles can be fatal
(that means it can kill )

Measles is more risky in adults.

I do wonder about this 1 in 1000 figure. It used to be 1 in 5-10000 and certainly if you look at the larger epidemics, that seems to be a more accurate representation.

bumbley I think it's because the 'wrong' age groups get it now. So there are far fewer infections and presumably the actual mortality numbers are lower but the death rate is higher. If that makes sense.

Childhood illnesses are def worse for adults...
My mum got CP from us and was so ill...I remember my dad having to take time off work to look after her.
My fil got mumps from my dh.
He was off work for 8 weeks and partially paralysed for a while.

That doesn't really sound like a good thing saintly! So basically we've managed to make measles a more dangerous disease?

That's not true of the so-called childhood infections MrsDeVere. Mumps, measles, chickenpox are all far more dangerous from puberty onwards. In the case of measles & chickenpox (and maybe mumps) they are also more dangerous for young infants. In the pre-vaccine era babies were protected by mother's antibodies (she had had measles - everyone did - and passed it on) - unfortunately now some babies are born without antibodies (and I got that piece of info from the HPA website).

If measles comes into this house I will be a little concerned about dh - he hasn't had measles, if he had a vaccination it would have been one dose nearly 40 years ago so god knows whether he still has any immunity from it, and measles in an adult can be very serious indeed.

The 'best' time to catch measles mumps and chickenpox is in childhood - i.e. after the age of 1 up until about 8 or 9

Well it depends bumbley. If the vaccination works in the way it is meant to then theoretically no - because no-one gets it.

The slightly worrying thing about this outbreak (in my mind anyway) is that the measles vaccination figures may well be pretty high. We don't know them as we don't know how many have had singles. The only paper I could find which looked at MMR + single vaccination rate for the 2000-2002 birth cohort have a figure of 94% as having received a vaccination. It may be that one dose isn't as effective as it was first said to be (remember the second dose isn't meant to be a booster it's just meant to get those missed) & that everyone who might have been given one dose of measles prior to the introduction of the MMR 2 x dose campaign needs a booster due to waning immunity.

The 'best' news would be that it is more or less confined to those who are not vaccinated, otherwise it is going to be hard to contain & would suggest that young adults are particularly at risk.

But who knows, it's all guess work without the figures.

There is now a suspected death of a 25 year old from measles.

Was this person vaccinated, I wonder? Just curious.

It was only briefly on the News. There are / were about 6000 people in Swansea area who haven't been vaccinated as the local paper ran a campaign at the height of the Andrew Wakefield / MMR scare.

No, there are that number who haven't been vaccinated with the MMR Many of them may well have been vaccinated with the singles.

Well given the socio-economic status of many people in Swansea I doubt that very much.

I mean, how many private doctors were offering the single jab in South Wales??? How many people in South Wales can afford to go private???

Cymru am byth!

Well the only paper I've found gave a measles vaccination rate for the 2000-2002 birth cohort (so one you'd expect to be low) of 94%. It fudges the written conclusions a bit by lumping in mumps, but if you look at the tables nearly everyone who opted for some singles had a measles jab.

Yes ideally they would actually know the numbers, they don't, but the fact that not many teenagers are coming forwards despite all the news stories suggests to me that the majority have already had one (hence not coming forwards).

Of course there may be an issue in that actually in a highly vaccinated population two measles jabs are needed- with the second acting as a booster (something it wasn't meant to do - it was meant to catch those that were missed- one was meant to be sufficient - 'officially' still is) and obviously if people have to pay for it then needing two may be an issue.

Bit difficult to tell without the figures and without them knowing how many actually have a measles containing vaccine (rather than MMR).

That article may not have even surveyed anywhere in Wales, where the outbreak is. It is spreading throughout Wales now. The problem is even if 6% of the population aren't vaccinated that still makes 6 in every 100 people, 60 in every 1000 and 600 in 100 000 and so on, so actually we do need everyone that can be vaccinated to be vaccinated

There is no outbreak in Wales. You are being fooled. Check the actual government figures. 40, yes 40 confirmed cases for the whole of 2012 and up to april this year. The press are having a field day with the cases of 'suspected' measles, which is a result of panic. A self fulfilling prophecy. Not one confirmed death. All nonsense. www2.nphs.wales.nhs.uk:8080/CommunitySurveillanceDocs.nsf/3dc04669c9e1eaa880257062003b246b/38c4ee86b5fd701e80257b41003cdc52/$FILE/monthly%20lab%20201303.pdf

Fatalities from measles are so rare it's almost negligible.

Some children can't be vaccinated for health reasons - do you think they should be branded on their forehead in order you can avoid them? Because how else will you know who you are mixing with in public or at the school or nursery, vax'd or not...

Not all those against it put the MMR scare up as the qualifying factor.
Some people do their own research and choose not to based on other concerns.

I chose not to involve my children in an intentional biological assault on their developing bodies.

Lastly, you can still get measles if vaccinated.

Flyingtree.. good points.

I did the maths, it's approx. 1 in a quarter to a half a million, based on gov. figures. Those unfortunate cases are most likely exacerbated by poor nutrition or other underlying causes. It's dangerous with stats to lump all children in together.

You cannot compare the likelihood of a child who is well nourished and not fed a diet of fizzy pop and sweets and chips contracting diseases that rely on a weakened immune system to that of a child whose overall health is poor. Of course, nothing is set in stone but create a good immune system and you should not have to worry about many of the diseases we are meant to be so afraid of.

I do like to finish my week by reading some utter garbage. Preferably irresponsible nonsense too.

Thank you. My week is now complete.

By saying it's irresponsible you are implying that people reading it aren't taking that responsibility themselves. I give people the credit that they can research matters themselves and not take important decisions based on strangers comments on internet threads. Or would you rather free debate is restricted in some way?
If you want to challenge what I'm saying fair enough, I'm always happy to change my mind if I'm wrong, but snidey little comments don't really help anyone.

You cannot compare the likelihood of a child who is well nourished and not fed a diet of fizzy pop and sweets and chips contracting diseases that rely on a weakened immune system to that of a child whose overall health is poor. Of course, nothing is set in stone but create a good immune system and you should not have to worry about many of the diseases we are meant to be so afraid of

Ball Bearing this is bollocks. You're basically blaming parents for allowing their children to get sick because of "poor diet" - um eating crisps and drinking fizzy drinks makes you more likely to get measles! You can't make this stuff up.

Immuno compromised is a medical (not dietary condition). Poor hygiene makes very little difference unless its very poor hygiene - ie no running water, no sewage system. Then measles fatalities escalate from around .1% to 25%.

Measles is a virus spread without fear or favour infecting anyone in proximity. Your response depemds on your anti body level. So yes, you may still get a very mild version if your vaccinated, but it's FAR less likely.

Stuff the community immunity all you like but the people whom you're putting at most risk at your own children. It doesn't matter how many veggie burgers you feed them, if they're infected with measles, they will get sick. How sick, no one knows. But if they have the vaccine, the worst of the virus will be mitigated.

If you believe the nonsense peddled by anti vaccine mob, you're not just rejecting vaccines, you should reject most of medical science since Jenner, because its premised on the same thing, testing hypothesis.

My son had the vaccine, the MMR vaccine, when he was an infant. It caused epilepsy and brain damage. It also left him for a time with an acquired immune deficiency which needed hospital treatment and meant he was more vulnerable to measles than before the vaccine.

It is not a black and white situation.

a) Have the MMR and your child will be protected against the diseases

or

b) Catch measles and your child will be severely affected or die

There is a whole palette of grey.

It's very difficult as a parent to make sense of the information coming from the department of health. Measles (and mumps and rubella) is a notifiable disease. Doctors have to report all suspected cases. Each case is supposed to be laboratory confirmed so there are accurate statistics by which the DH can alert the public to the true extent of an outbreak. As has already been mentioned on this thread the figures coming from Public Health Wales don't tally. The authorities have been keeping a running total of reported cases of measles since November last year but as laboratory confirmation has become available the running total of reported cases has not been corrected or a distinction made between the two in media reports.

The DH reports the number of children who haven't had the MMR in one or two doses but doesn't report the number who have had the single dose vaccines.

The DH is also taking an MMR or nothing stance when, particularly in an outbreak, it should not matter if the parent gives the MMR or separate vaccines as long that is in the child's best interests and a choice is always better than nothing.

I would be very grateful if anyone reading this could please help concerned parents to have a choice by signing the e-petition below:

submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/46642

"Make available and regulate single MMR Vaccines to the public on the NHS and Privately
Responsible department: Department of Health
Given the current decrease in parents protecting their children with the current MMR vaccine, it seems evident from the majority of parents and public demand that people want the choice of safe single vaccines either in place of or as an option to protect their children from measles,mumps and rubella. As the UK currently faces an epidemic of measles it seems the government is failing to listen again to the majority. This petition calls for regulated single vaccines on the NHS and privately, made available immediately!!!"

Coorong.. this is unbelievably stupid. Are you really in all seriousness telling me that one's diet does not effect one's ability to fight off disease.. tell that to the Malaria victims in Sub-Saharan Africa. And before you tell me that there is no comparison between the diets of the two, that is not the point I am making. I am saying that diet does effect health and the strength of the immune system. So yes, I am actually blaming parents for the poor health of their children if they feed them excessive sugar, bad fats, processed junk that has very little nutritional value. Stuff this PC nonsense. Take some responsibility. And by the way.. veggie burgers are usually full of crud, so that wouldn't help.

"Viral and bacterial infections are by far the most common causes of illness for most people. They cause things like colds, influenza, measles, mumps, malaria, AIDS and so on.

The job of your immune system is to protect your body from these infections. The immune system protects you in three different ways:

It creates a barrier that prevents bacteria and viruses from entering your body.
If a bacteria or virus does get into the body, the immune system tries to detect and eliminate it before it can make itself at home and reproduce.
If the virus or bacteria is able to reproduce and start causing problems, your immune system is in charge of eliminating it."

And from Medical News Today:
"Immune system maintenance requires a steady intake of all the necessary vitamins and minerals. This can be accomplished by eating a well-balanced diet including plenty of fruit and vegetables, yoghurt products on a regular basis."

That seems pretty clear. I really shouldn't have to be telling you this.. this is BASIC mainstream knowledge, and it seems highly irresponsible to claim otherwise.

And as for Jenner.. anyone who thinks scraping the infected pus of a calf's wounds and injecting that into healthy individuals was some kind of breakthrough in modern medicine needs their head examined:

From an original monograph by Dr Walter Hadwen, here is an account of how smallpox vaccine was first made:

1. A 3 month old calf was tied down on its side.
2. 30 ? 50 one inch incisions were made in its stomach
3. Smallpox pus rubbed into each incision
4. Calf is returned to its pen, restrained so as to be unable to lick the sores
5. Wait one week.
6. Smallpox pustules form
7. Calf strapped down again
8. Encrusted pus is scraped off each sore and the remaining blood, lymph, and pus is then drained out.
9. It is placed in a crucible and heated, adding glycerine as a binder

10. Mixed and strained to remove hair and dead flesh. 11. Poured into tubes as sold as pure calf lymph ? or smallpox vaccine.

Much as I like animals, I am not a vegan, and drink milk, so can't claim the moral high ground. You aren't suggesting the same method is currently used though.

I think perhaps you mean cow-pox not smallpox. It was a result of observing that milkmaids who picked up this mild infection from cattle seemed to have imminity to smallpox.

Vaccination has been of overwhelming benefit to mankind, and is responsible for wiping out smallpox. It would probably be capable of wiping out measles as well, which would also be of enormous benefit. I really shouldn't have to be telling you this.. this is BASIC mainstream knowledge, and it seems highly irresponsible to claim otherwise.

No I don't.
"The vaccine for small pox was the first vaccine ever developed. In fact, the term "vaccine" comes from the Latin word for cow, vaccinus, since the original small pox vaccine was made using the cow pox virus. "

"Vaccination has been of overwhelming benefit to mankind". Debateable.