Precocious Puberty?

[Aji]

Dd is 5, nearly 6. This summer I noticed that she was starting to sweat with "adult" body odour from her armpits.

Tonight she asked me about a hair in her bottom, and showed me what looks like a pubic hair.

I had a look on the internet (the term I found was "precocious puberty", which talks about signs of puberty in girls before 6-8 - www.nhs.uk/conditions/puberty/pages/complications.aspx) and am going to make a doctor's appointment for her next week. She is quite tall for her age.

I wanted to ask if anyone had also experienced this with their children, and how they dealt with it? Am worried :(.

I'm getting increasingly worried. We've not had the appointment through yet for the hospital and in just 3 weeks the changes in my dd are alarming. Her pubic hair is growing really fast and she now has under arm hair which definatly wasn't there when we went to the GP 3 weeks ago. I think its the speed that things are happening with her that worries me. Her height is going mental as well, she's gone through all the percentiles now and is right on the top one in her red book and was born on the 9th.

Oh poor you. I can see why you are worried. I would get in touch with the doctors again so that they are aware of what is happenening and thay may even try and bring forward your appointment if they are able. I really hope you can get sorted soon.

AMum, I too would try and have her appt brought forward. I'd call both the gp and the hospital to try and speed things along. Let us know how you get on.

hugglebug, have you had the x-ray yet? Do you know what the urine test is for - steroids?

Apparently our DD's specialist hormone test results are back and I have a phone consultation scheduled for tomorrow morning.

How is everyone else doing?

I called the GP and they've not done the referral . I was meant to get a call back but they didn't. I'm not happy.

SElady, hope that the consultation goes OK tomorrow morning. Let us know the results. Would you mind sharing what tests they have done and what your dd's symptoms / signs are? I'm getting myself into a pickle with google, it seems so complicated as can be so many different variations. I know we just need to see the specialist to get answers and ball rolling on treatment if there is to be any.

Can I join in, please:)
I put a post up last month regarding my DD1 who is 6, she has had really strong body odour and aches in her bones for a while now, last month I found pubic hairs after a worms incident, how i did not see them before is beyond me, she also seems to have damp knickers.
I have been to the doctors and she has had the referral for late Febuary but they rang me today to say they want to see her sooner, so they have remade the appointment for the first week in January.
I feel so conscious of it now, ballet she normally just stripes off, knickers included to get her leotard on, swimming is the same, I don't want to freak her out but you can see them, bless her, so young, so innocent.
She is still unaware of the fuss, I am going to have a chat this weekend but how do I go around it without making it into a big deal.

AMum and , this has happened to us so many times in the past that I had got into the habit of always following up hospital referrals.
Lets hope they'll request an urgent appt now and hopefully you'll get to see someone quicker than you would have originally had! Our hospital has the same policy, they always phone to arrange appts with you then send out the letter.

Our DD (7) had the usual hormone tests done (all normal) and hopefully tomorrow we'll find out about some specialist ones such as ACTH and 17OHP. We're also waiting for her urine test result (for steroids). So far DD has had a pelvic UH (normal) and bone x-ray (10-11 months ahead of her age). Her symptoms are: fine pubic hair and increased height but normal growth/year. Her BMI is also normal. We noticed the pubic hair earlier this year when she was still 6.

I'll be checking back to see how you and your DD are getting on.

Hi mooliebear, is your DD fully aware of any of this? If not, I would definitely not make a big deal out of it. I find the pubic hair the most "scary" out of all the symptoms too as it tends to develop so rapidly.
Early January is not too far off now, hang in there!

We've gone round in big circles today and I don't think we'll be staying at our GP for any longer than it takes to get a satisfactory answer to our formal written complaint that they will be receiving. Its been shoddy and diabolical and at the heart of it all is a 6 year old who is being let down badly.

AMum I am so sorry, I know how worrying it is but with the added stress of the referral not being made just makes it worse:(
The longer you wait the further into it they are going, I do hope its gets sorted ASAP for your DD. Big hug from Devon.

I hope you get some decent service soon AMum.

Well, dd had her hospital appointment today. She was quite excited to be picked up from school early, and was fine throughout the consultation with the paediatrician. He doesn't think it's true precocious puberty, as he says there would normally be more signs and it would show pretty soon after birth.

She gave a urine sample, and had to give a blood sample :(. She was all confident throughout the appointment until the nurse took her blood - she had to try in both arms and poor dd was so shocked (first time) that she started crying and didn't stop for a good 30 minutes. It made me realise that I didn't have to give a blood sample until I was pregnant with her at 29.

We have an appointment to go back in January when the results will be through, and she will also have an ultrasound of her stomach in a month or so to check that her adrenal glands are not enlarged.

Aji Glad that the appointment went well until the blood test :(. At least she's in the system and being investigated. I didn't think that they could only get it soon after birth, in fact everything I've read indicates it can be anytime from birth with a peak around 6 years.

My dd has woken today with 2 spots on her beautiful face :(. Its all happening so quickly for her and I am totally lost in getting her looked at and investigated by a specialist. I never knew I would have to fight and push so hard to get her to see a paed and I'm used to fighting the system with my ds as he has SN and believe me I thought I had had fights before but they have been nothing compared to this experience. I'm waiting for 2 phone calls today from people who might be able to help get this referral sorted. Just hope that they do call me. I'm not going to go out at all until I've had them though.

Well done to your DD Aji - very brave little girl ! Can sympathise with the "double" blood test, we have a very panicky DD1 and all the diverting attention tactics in the world fail when it comes to taking blood from her. Luckily we've recently discovered that she is absolutely fine as long as she can watch when they take the blood. It may sound weird but I think it gives her comfort that she sees - therefore understands - what's going on around her.

Not doubting what your doctor said, but I too had this conversation with our consultant whether there would have been signs for us to see from an earlier age in our DD1 to indicate precocious puberty which we may have missed and the answer was a firm 'no'. She said the symptoms can occur in any order and at any time before the age of 7 (in girls). The underlying cause may well be there from even before a child is born but it varies from person to person when symptoms visible to the eye develop.
I've been meaning to ask if your DD had a bone x-ray done?

AMum, I really feel your pain regarding how you feel about your surgery! I'm no medical expert just trying to think logically.... but could it really be that your DD's symptoms evolve this rapidly? I'm not talking about the hair, but it may just be a coincidence that she developed those spots on her face. Does she touch her face very often? Isn't she a thumb-sucker by any chance? We have this ongoing battle with our DD1 and she constantly has various blemishes on her face because she just can't control her wondering fingers...

I do hope you get some positive news today regarding your hospital appointment!!! I was going to ask whether you've thought of starting the investigations private... Mind you, round our way even a consultation would set you back at least £200 and that is without any investigative procedures . However, if you do have cover it's definitely worth considering!

Another option would be to ask your GP to order the necessary tests whilst you're waiting, they may say no, but it's worth a try.

Our hormone tests all came back negative, the urine is still outstanding. I've started to relax, but still feel very curious as to what's causing the development of pubic hair in such a young child and how come none of these tests have shown up anything (yet)?!? I've started to blame myself and our manic lifestyle and convinced myself that perhaps stress must have something to do with DD's symptoms ...

Hello,
I've just been reading all your stories and it's so worrying for you. I wanted to ask if amongst all the other signs, that breast/nipple enlargement was one of them?

My dd (4.5 yrs old) had a very red and enlarged nipple about a month ago and I had no idea why. It wasn't sore, but definitely noticable by both her and me. Now her "breasts" seem bigger (this could be my imagination). Luckily it just looks like they've got some puppy fat in this area. Also luckily that we don't have any other signs, but I'm just wondering if there's more to come as she's only 4.

Thank you.

SElady Glad that your dd's results were normal. What a relief for you.

My dd is not a thumb sucker any longer (stopped about a year ago). She's had greasy hair for a couple of months now before the hair came. The spots are new. Its the speed that things are progressing with her that scares me the most. We've made small progress today. We're going back to the GP to get another referral instigated. Poor love is going to have to be examined again but quite frankly I don't care now, she needs to get to a specialist ASAP in my eyes because of the speed things seem to be happening for her. I've done some reading about rapid onset precocious puberty and so her speed isn't unheard of but worrying.

gottasmile Breast enlargement can be a sign from what I've read. We think our dd has got some breast tissue forming but like you we can't tell if its just puppy fat although my dd is skinny as a rake elsewhere. If you are worried you could go down to your GP and see what they think.

Thank you AMumGoingMad, my dd is not skinny (but not fat, just quite solid). I think I might ask a GP just in case.

Sorry for the hijack Aji and good luck with the results.

I found this this morning.

Interesting that they think there is a link between low birth weight and rapid onset and progression of precocious puberty. My dd is a twin. She was a good weight for a twin but it was obvious from the beginning that she had had growth restricted because she went from the 9th percentile to the 50th percentile in the space of a few months. She then sat on the 50th percentile until recently.

Just been listening to this on woman's hour BBC radio4, quite interesting.
Sorry on my phone and it won't link it, Google this, early puberty woman's hour June 2012, sorry, hope you get to listen to it.

AMum, I remember reading about the low birth weight early puberty onset connection, too. It would certainly be true for us, as my DD1 weighed just only 6 lbs (2760 g) when she was born. Feel slightly scared for our DD2 now, who was even smaller at 5.9 lbs (2680 g). Both normal deliveries at full term though. Interestingly, only my DS had gone over 7 lbs.

Also read that pre-term babies had a higher chance of early onset of puberty, possibly because of the low birth weight?

This is the link to the Womans Hour programme. Interesting listening.

We've received a general paediatric appointment at the local hospital in a months time. I am not impressed . I'm going to speak to the GP on Monday and ask for a private referral. I don't care about money right now, £200 is what I had allocated and saved for Christmas presents for me and dh, we won't have Christmas presents, I don't want them, I want dd seen.

I hope you don't mind me joining this thread. My heart is going out to all of you going through this, it seems to take such a long time to get tests, results, appointments etc.
We're just starting our path too with our DD who is only 27 months old. She has had BO since the summer & I recently noted several dark pubic hairs. She's had blonde downy pubic hair for a while but I didn't give that too much thought as she didn't loose all her newborn fluff. We're paying for a private apt for 2 wks time as I just can't wait for nhs, I'm totally freaking out about it.
She does seem to get excessively upset about stuff at times but I was putting it down to terrible twos . I'm starting to log her moods now to see if there are any patterns. Also, she seems to be much more tired recently - is anyone else's LO experiencing that? I can't bear thinking about how her little body is trying to cope with toddlerdom & puberty at the same time!
I can't seem to find any information about puberty starting quite as young as this. Naturally I'm panicking about the reasons why. Thanks for the various links to info I will be reading in detail.
One thing that I will be considering is a natural support, a friend is a homeopath & will recommend various remedies depending on what we find out. I'm not going to rely on this in isolation but whilst monitoring etc is going on I would rather not pump a load of hormones into an already confused little body.
Hugs to you all

MammyKaz Glad that you have found us, we're a small bunch but we all understand the worry that these symptoms cause even if it doesn't turn out to be proper puberty. Your DD is so little :(. I'm not surprised you are paying for a private appointment, the NHS has been appauling for us but where we live we can access one of the best childrens hospitals in the country which would be best for our DD if only the GP would actually refer to there. Hope that the appointment goes well for you. I'll be interested to hear what your friend suggests. Good idea about keeping a diary of her moods. I think I might do that between now and when ever we see someone.

We're still waiting to hear anything and I can't phone the hospital today as I was told middle to end of the week so thats tomorrow at the earliest. I happen to be at that hospital with my ds tomorrow so I might ask the receptionist if she can see anything on the system for my dd whilst I'm there.

(((HUGS))) to all.
I am so glad we had such a good referal and doctor. We had no problems. Even the specialist who saw our DD was great and gave me his number (not his personal number! his office number) so that if anything else came up we could ring his secetary right away and get a call from him rather than going through the doctors and appointment process again. We have been lucky.
MammyKaz I think natural remedies is a good idea. Hope everything turns out well for you.

Thanks ladies, it is great to have found others that can really understand what's going on. DH is in constant denial that anythings really going on! Frustrating but his coping method.

AMumGoingMad- did you manage to find out anything further today. Really hope you get a quick appointment. The wait is the most frustrating part. Even our private paediatrician appointment is a 2week wait. I'm calmly chasing the possibility of cancellations. Can it be that this condition is so low on the priority scale?

Several of thestories I've come across referred to tracking behaviour to support diagnosis & as DD isn't able to describe what's going on I want to have as much info as possible.

Alwaysworriedtoo - so glad you're having a good doctor experience. I'm crossing my fingers our paed will be similar. I'll let you know what my homeopath friend thinks, based on any results we get whenever we get them. I'm terrified

On a plus note she's a much calmer, happier kid today

Hi MammyKaz, I'm glad you found this thread. My dh is a little in denial too, but I guess now that she's been referred to the paediatrician, he trusts that there will be a proper diagnosis and appropriate treatment.

SELady, I asked the paediatrician about a bone scan and he seemed surprised. He said it wasn't commonly done, but obviously it would depend on the results of the blood and urine tests.

Gottasmile, no hijack at all - this isn't "my" thread! GP did check for signs of breast development when we initially went to see her - there weren't any with dd but GP did say that they would have been more worried if there had been.