Please help me help my 9 year old dd get some sleep!

[CakeGloriousCake]

She is having terrible trouble going to sleep at night at the moment and it's starting to spiral into a self-perpetuating problem.

She is in PJs at 7.30 goes to bed just before 8 o'clock, lights out usually by 8.15 but quite often she is still awake at 10pm when we go up. She is starting to get very stressed, coming down every night in tears saying she can't sleep (we usually take her back up, say she can read for 10mins then lights out again).

Last night she came into our bed (just me, dh was still watching football) about 10.15pm sobbing saying she is pathetic and she can't sleep and she hates crying every night about it - she is prone to the dramatic (!) and cuddled up with me and was asleep within 10 minutes.

We have to wake her every morning for school - she is not a morning person - and she is grumpy and tearful, arguing with her brother etc. So basically it is misery all round for everyone!

What can I do to help her (btw it doesn't seem to make any difference what she has done in the day, one day at the weekend she spent a few hours out on her bike with friends in the wood, the other about 4 hours playing with friends indoors but both nights the same problem)?

My dd (now 9, then 7) had the same kind of trouble, what really helped her was a children's meditation CD, there are lots around but this one is really good.

Could it be because of the light nights? Mt 10yo DD has a blackout blind as she cant sleep easily without one.

What is she like when the nights are darker?

Is there anything worrying her at school/home/friends.

Sorry dont have much advice but I hope you get it sorted.

Thanks for the suggestions!
Her room is quite light but then she is still awake after it is dark so not sure if that is the problem or not. I have mentioned a black out blind to dh but he is sure that is not the problem (I'll try again!)
I'm pretty sure it is not food as she is eating the same as usual, no chocolate or tea in the evenings, in fact thinking about
I'll have a look at the meditation odd boots, do you put it on a cd player in the room and then just let it switch off automatically?

I do, the first few times I stayed with her until she slept (and fell asleep myself too!) but after that I left her with it and she now chooses when to listen to it. She often borrows story CDs from the library and listens to those instead now but she sometimes goes back to it if she's having trouble.

I have one if those CDs that you get for babies with classical music on in the background when I have trouble sleeping and it really helps.

Right odd boots - I'm on it! Might even do the amazon prime free trial thing so I can get it quicker, thank you

I'm going to try the classical music thingy tonight, great idea savoy.

I have a really good relax app on my iphone by Glenn Harrold which helps me sleep. Sometimes my DD, who's 8, has the same problem and it's almost like she gets more and more stressed about not being able to fall asleep as it gets later, which makes it harder to get off to sleep, and so on. We told her to just lie quietly, with her eyes closed, and rest then it doesn't matter if she can't drop off because she is still letting her body rest and relax. That worked quite well.

Try audio books. The local library will have a selection. Try Harry Potter.

Scootergrrrl, yes that is exactly it, she's now so stressed about not going to sleep she is stopping herself from going to sleep.

I will look into downloading some audible books, thanks gnocchi.
Actually, thinking about it, I wonder if I can download the meditation cd from iTunes as well - off to investigate

Thanks all, I knew MN would have some great ideas!

My DS (9) who has boderline ADHD had terrible trouble getting to sleep. We did all the recommended bedtime stuff but to no avail, he couldn't "switch off" for hours.

In the end the thing that has made a huge difference is melatonin (tablets available over the counter in the US - you can by them online). Lots of parents with kids with attention defect/hyperactivity use them to help 'reset' their kids biological clock at bedtime. They aren't sleeping tablets bit are a dose of the natural hormone that most people make when it gets dark.

Obviously Internet "prescribing" is not something to be taken lightly, but is an option to look into.

We had the exact same problem, from aged 7. Tried everything but nothing worked for us and she's nearly 11 now.

I went for reverse psychology - told her she HAD to go to her room and STAY there. But she did not have to go to sleep though - the extra pressure at having to sleep makes it all worse. She can read, write, do art, but no electronics.

She still doesn't sleep. Occassionally comes downstairs. Is still crap in the morning but there is much, much less stress on all of us except for me trying to get her out the door on time in the morning . That would be the same regardless of number of hours sleep, tbh.

Oh, but one thing that seems to have helped is Bach Flower Remedies Night Time Rescue Remedy DD thinks it works and that's good enough for me!

My DD is almost 8 and the same! Blackout blinds do help....if DH is difficult about them just get them anyway! You can buy blackout fabric in fabric shops and then attach them to the frame with velcro for ease.

I am interested by what Ruby says about sugar...I will try thaat Ruby...my DD was up till 10.00pm last night and she's still offcially 7! I also tried a medtittion CD and it annoyed her after two nights!

She has the radio on low now....it distrcts her from thinking too much...we use Classic FM or Smooth Radio....I am definitely doing the no sugar after 4 thing!

my DS (9) seems to do this sometimes.

I have told him that it does not matter if he sleeps or just lies there and that your body and mind still rest, even if you are not sleeping. This thought relaxed him and he sleeps better now.

...and I got blackout curtains which help.

I think shes going to bed far too early. Pjs by 7.30? My 10yo is still out playing at that time.

She goes to bed at 9.

Sorry didnt mean to sound so harsh there!

I don't have older children, so this is just my opinion - but isn't 7.30 really early for a 9 year old? Have you tried putting her to bed later?

Coco- I was waiting for someone to flame me for her bedtime - there's always a debate about this on MN. She's only just 9yrs (a couple of weeks ago) so I think her bedtime is appropriate. PJs on doesn't mean she goes to bed at 7.30 it just means she and DS (7yrs) know it is going to be bed in the next hour.

Sarry - she's not in bed at 7.30!

I wasnt flaming you

Does she get any exercise in the evening? A bike ride? Trampoline? Quick 1/2 mile stroll to the shop to get an unneccessary item?

Sometimes fresh air will help, and often, on a walk, DCs of that age will 'open up' about things that are bothering them far more than a face to face conversation in a house.

My DD was 9 last month, on light evenings she's still playing out til 8ish, then a bit of mooching around and reading or read to til 8.45.
Sometimes she'll put a CD on (songs or story cd) and usually when DC1 goes to bed at 9.30 she's either turned it off or gone to sleep with it on low.

I would suggest a slightly later bedtime, more fresh air, and more of an emphasis on 'as long as you're in bed and you're body's getting a rest you can read/draw/daydream/have a CD on' just to unwind the vicious spiral you seem to have got into.

Why not make her bedtime a bit later too? If she's just stressing upstairs by herself could she not go up later and read for a while, then listen to a cd?

Ok, I was waiting for someone to 'have a go' about her bedtime. Is that better?!

She's pretty open and we do talk about stuff that is bothering her so I don't think it is that but I will ask.

Quite often she is fiddling around (writing, reading, drawing) until 9 ish in bed - which we leave her to -lights out is 'officially' 8.15 though.

My concern is that if we put her to bed a 9pm and she still needs that wind down (dh is the same, he can't go to sleep straight away even if we go to bed at 1am) she's going to be up even later and clearly she needs more sleep than she is getting.