Please help me help my 9 year old dd get some sleep!

[CakeGloriousCake]

She is having terrible trouble going to sleep at night at the moment and it's starting to spiral into a self-perpetuating problem.

She is in PJs at 7.30 goes to bed just before 8 o'clock, lights out usually by 8.15 but quite often she is still awake at 10pm when we go up. She is starting to get very stressed, coming down every night in tears saying she can't sleep (we usually take her back up, say she can read for 10mins then lights out again).

Last night she came into our bed (just me, dh was still watching football) about 10.15pm sobbing saying she is pathetic and she can't sleep and she hates crying every night about it - she is prone to the dramatic (!) and cuddled up with me and was asleep within 10 minutes.

We have to wake her every morning for school - she is not a morning person - and she is grumpy and tearful, arguing with her brother etc. So basically it is misery all round for everyone!

What can I do to help her (btw it doesn't seem to make any difference what she has done in the day, one day at the weekend she spent a few hours out on her bike with friends in the wood, the other about 4 hours playing with friends indoors but both nights the same problem)?

My dd has only just turned 7 last month. We used to put her to bed at 7.30 but she would lay awake for at least two hours even after stories... Now she goes to bed at 8.30 and has up to an hour to read, draw, watch a DVD ( at weekends) and listen to a cd. Then lights out. We wake her at 7.30 every morning. She often is still awake at 10pm but is testing with lights out listening to a quiet cd and that means she still gets well over 9 hours sleep.

GP suggested for dd1 (age 11) who has problems sleeping that we could occasionally give her piriton. I think it works primarily because she thinks it works and she relaxes. But when she'd getting into a bad cycle, then it breaks it.

For those moaning about bedtime, actually, having tried it, a later playing out time doesn't help my dd1. She needs a length of time relaxing, reading or something quiet in her bed. Generally she needs around an hour of quiet reading to relax. So she goes up to bed around 8, with light out about 9-9:15. If she played out until 9, then she'd be reading until 10, and she needs more sleep than that if possible.

The main thing for me is not to get stressed about it. Dd1 now knows that if she's having difficulty sleeping then she can read a chapter or two. Just knowing that she can do that helps her not to worry about not sleeping.

We use this cd.

My DD Had similar problems (8pm bedtime) and it was taking her 2-3 hours to fall asleep. Reading/audio books didn't work as they were just stimulating her brain.

Since the cd we've not looked back. The meditations are 15 mins long and my DD has never heard the end of any of them!

I would also suggest that the bedtime may be too early. Understand you are not expecting her to be in bed at 7.30 but you're raising the expectation of sleep possibly 1.5 or 2 hours before she's ready for it, and that may unconsciously put pressure on her when she is already anxious. Could you experiment perhaps with her staying up clothed and around the house later, and a later (maybe only 30 minutes later) actual bedtime, with very little-build up?

Well I have tried a later bedtime with mine and all that does is make it worse as she lies there for another hour or two!

Dd is like this, she is 8. I exercise her like a horse, do the whole routine thing, blahblahblah, she is up and down like a jack in the box. I so recognise the whole coming into your bed at 10 and dropping straight off. Not sure there is an answer tbh.

maybe its just her bodyclock
your not going to be able to change it
ive got 4dc and they all go to sleep/wake at different times

My ds has had problems in the past.

The things that helped were:

No tv/computer/wii/ds etc after 6pm.
Definite routine as he gets ready for bed.
We read him a story and stay for a cuddle and a chat for 5 mins or so.
We have a blackout blind velcroed onto the window frame.
He has a personal cd player and listens to stories through headphones as he drops off.
He has a low light level colour change light which he watches as he drops off.

There are drops from Bach's called "night rescue" or something like that. I don't know if they actually physically work but they may have some placebo effect that help them to stop being anxious about being able to fall asleep.

There is also a book/workbook available on Amazon called, "What to do if you dread your bed" or something like that, which you could work through together.

Ds doesn't need all of this now but it did get him over the "hump" of not being able to drop off.

What does Piriton do then? Someone above suggested it...

I wouldn't give medicine without a doctors advice

Puritan is an anti-histamine with a side effect of drowsiness

Piriton also gave my DD diarrhea so maybe not the best solution at bedtime!

Be careful with Piriton. I can make some kids drowsy and some hyper. Our doc prescribed it for mine when they had chicken pox to ease the itching and they both went sky high.

My DD has awful trouble getting to sleep, she takes after me and I need about 4 hours a night. We had no end of stress about this, just like you, she would cry about not being able to sleep, until we stopped making an issue of it. Now, lights out is quiet time, not necessarily sleep time.

When she was little she had her own CD player with story CD's; now she has her iPod with music (she's 14). After lights out she could listen to her CDs or music, and (when she was younger) if she was still awake after 30 mins she was allowed to turn her bedside light on for 30 mins and read (but no DS or activity books, just reading books).

Now she sorts her own 'lights out' time herself. She knows I prefer her lights out no later than 10:30, but if she can't sleep she can quietly read or listen to music until she's tired.

Lots of good ideas here which I would certainly follow. Its a well known phenomenon that the more you worry about insomnia the more insomniac you become! She sounds a bit of an owl by nature, but nevertheless needs to conform to school hours etc. If she is drowsy and difficult to wake in the morning she is not a child who can survive on a short nights sleep.

Try Bachs Rescue Night, from Amazon. Not sure if its effective, works for me but I'm not sure if its psychological! Non medicinal though. Piriton can make you drowsy but also hungover, but maybe for desperation give it a go? Melatonin is a naturally occuring substance in the body and the liquid does exactly what you need BUT has to be prescribed by a paediatrician and costs megabucks so sadly not an option.

... The tablets are fairly cheap online though, as it is an over the counter "nutritional supplement" in the US.

(not wanting to sound like a drug pusher, but good to know whats out there - I think it's a gentler solution/no side effects compared to piriton)

Ditto think too early bedtime could be the problem... Our then 8 yo DS stayed awake from 8 til 10 till we realised hs sleep habit had changed and he just didn't need as much. So bit bullet and switched to 9. awake till 9.30 but no pressure to sleep. He listens to Alex Ryder audios and drifts off. He sometimes uses a sleep app if he's struggng. Good luck your poor DD.

Just seen a similar thread about an 8 y/o so I wondered how your dd is getting on and if anything has helped?

My 8.5 year old dd can't get to sleep on light summer nights - or when her brain is too busy. Earlier bedtimes cause more problems, for her. We used to put her to bed around 8, then 8.30, but she never ever went to sleep before 9.30 - often not till 10pm.

We now let her read in bed with a small light until she gets sleepy - no rules about lights out, she self-regulates and, although not going to sleep much earlier than 9.30-10pm still, she is far far less stressed. She enjoys going to bed now (she is in bed by 9pm) and rarely says she can't sleep - if she does, its because something is going on in her head and she needs to talk

She gets up around 7.30-7.45am.

Having this issue with my 9 yr old dd at moment. We moved house before Xmas, then had a month or so of gales battering her windows, she settled down and now is dealing with jet lag after a trip to the states last week . She's going to choose some relaxing music from youtube and try that tonight. If not i like the sound of the Christianne Kerr relaxation cd's and maybe ill get her to do a bi of yoga before bed!

Exact same issue as original poster.
Kid is 11 years old and been going on for 2 weeks, maybe 5 nights from 7.
Great thru day. Then mister at night. So aggressive and rustrated that can't nod off, even though tired.
Deliberate distrubtion to wake up 5 year old sister 2 rooms away, then war zone screaming jealous as she getting comfort and attention.

I got 3 hours sleep. Wits end now. doctors with him tomorrow.

I've just come across this thread as we are having the same problem with our dd, who's 9 - she has had trouble sleeping since she was about 3 but we seemed to have cracked it for a while. What worked then doesn't seem to work now - she just can't get to sleep at night.

Just wondered, 2 years on, if you'd found anything that had worked? Thanks

I have the same problem here with my dd aged 9. She is still coming through at 10/1030pm saying she's heard a noise or asking when I'm going to bed. Out bedroom is next door and she settles down quickly if we're actually in bed. I'm a bit frustrated as dh and I never get the evening together and we start falling out. I've tried audio CDs, (stimulate her mind too much & she just keeps replaying them - this includes the meditation one), letting her read or draw. I've tried enforcing lights off, letting lights stay on. Her go to sleep time is 9pm but she can carry on until 11 sometimes. You can only imagine what getting her up on school mornings are like! Anyone have any success with other ideas?

My dd is,nearly 10 and she has been like this her whole life. She is currently asleep on the sofa after being up til 1am stressed about noises/smells/feeling things on her body and I'm actually demented from lack of sleep and the fact that she is so tired all the time and then gets angry and grumpy.

She just can't sleep unless I'm close by and I don't know how to cope anymore. We had an assessment done with CAMHS and I'm praying they can help.

I have my suspicions she's on the spectrum because of all of her behaviours but today kind of made me realise there's a high possibility which would also explain the lack of sleep. We were out at a museum and there was stuff for kids to do, one was to make a mosaic using magnetic shapes. Went over and dd hadn't done a pattern, she had just sorted all the shapes and colours into piles and lined them up neatly down one edge.