Holiday with chickenpox

[monkey117]

Hi, I'm wondering what everyone else would do in my situation as I am finding it so hard to make a decision. My family are due to go on holiday to Menorca next Monday. My 3 year old DD1 came down with chickenpox last Thursday so by Monday she will be on Day 12 since the rash started. We are currently on Day 7 and most of the spots seem to be scabbing over so I am hopeful that by next Monday she will no longer be contagious and safe to fly. I plan to go to the doctors this Friday to ask whether he can give us a 'safe to fly' letter just in case we experience any problems. However, I am assuming that it will be highly likely that DD2 (18 months old) has caught chickenpox from her sister and will currently be at the incubating stage. Therefore it is very likely that she will come out with the rash while we are on holiday, most likely during the first week of our 2 week holiday. I am finding it so difficult to make a decision as to whether we should try to cancel the holiday, however if my DD1 is no longer contagious and DD2 doesnt yet have chickenpox at the time of our flight then we may not get our holiday paid for by insurance if we cancel. But the thought of travelling abroad with my 18 month old highly likely to come out with chickenpox is also not very appealing! Any opinions would be greatly received as I am so stressed right now and dont know what to do for the best! Thank you.

Northernlurker - it seems logical to me that there is a 100% chance that the OP's second dd has been exposed to chicken pox - whereas the chance that a child at nursery will have been exposed, during a given week, must be considerably lower than that.

As others have pointed out, one pregnant lady or immuno-compromised person on the flight who aren't immune and you could kill them or their unborn child. A slim risk, but still a risk its worth bearing in mind since you are aware of what is going on.

Had you considered getting DC2 vaccinated? I'm not 100% but I think that you can immunise after exposure and it can prevent them developing it, or they will develop it much much milder (sometimes 1 or 2 spots).

Who on earth goes on a plane when they are immuno-suppressed anyway? Very few people I'd imagine....who would put their health at risk incase they even catch the common cold...

I was on chemotherapy for a year, there was no reason why i wouldn't have wanted to go on holiday in that time, hell apart from go to hospital for treatment , I wasn't doing much else!

Also there are a lot of people who are immunosuppressed because of medication, or pregnancy that may also want to travel.

There are also people like my ds, who has frequent chest infections and problems swallowing for whom chicken pox would be extremely unpleasant.

I don't understand why the OP must consider the unknown risk to unknonw person of travelling with her child of unknown infectious status and yet everybody else on the plane is fine to travel with their children who are also of unknown infectious status. At the same time any immuno-compromised person is assumed to have not evaluated the risk of travelling with children (and adults) of unknown status.
I know that's not very clear but the point I'm trying to make is that if the OP gets on the plane she is NOT raising the overall level of risk in the population, she isn't doing anything that shouldn't already have been evaluated by her fellow travellers and she is in fact fine to go on holiday. Chicken pox is endemic in the population. It is unavoidable and unpredictable.

The OP says she is going to ask her GP for advice on whether to go when she sees him tomorrow. Speaking as someone who has a child who was hospitalised for 2 days with nasty CP I think she should be given a break here. She isn't being irresponsible. Her GP will tell her what to do

Let us know what your GP says OP. I feel for you, what a stress.

FWIW. I had to take one f my DC to the GP a couple of weeks ago with hat looked like very small chicken pox spots. The GP suggested I take her in after I called for advice on the rash. They just put us in the normal waiting room. My DC didn't have CP though we couldn't be sure for another few days, but there was another little boy in the waiting room who most definitely had full blown CP.

Northernlurker - the OP's dd2 has definitely been exposed to chicken pox. If any other child on the plane has definitely been exposed to a disease as contagious and potentially harmful to an unborn child as chicken pox, then their parents should have kept them at home too.

The OP cannot ensure that other parents behave responsibly towards other people - none of us can - but she can decide whether to knowingly and deliberately expose people to a child who definitely has been exposed (and seriously exposed, not just in passing) to chicken pox.

I appreciate what a bummer it is for the OP and her family - I would be properly pissed off myself, in the same circumstances, but I wouldn't want to be responsible for a child growing up physically and mentally disabled, nor would I want to risk that happening.

The OP can make her own choice - I have tried to give information that I think is relevant to that choice. And if she does go on the plane, the chances are that she will never know whether anyone else on the plane catches chicken pox from her child - but if her dd2 develops chickenpox on holiday, she will know that she did expose everyone on the plane, and she will always wonder if she did cause any harm.

Anyhow - even if no terrible outcomes happen, is it fair to risk spoiling other people's holidays with chicken pox? Really?

Things is - we could all be responsible for terrible happenings every time we step out of the door. Things we know about and things we don't. It's completely unfair to hold the OP to such a high - and impossible standard when none of the rest of us meet that or could hope to.

Being exposed to chicken pox does not mean that they have been infected even if they have been together 24/7.

It is irresponsible to take someone that is knowingly infectious into a public place.

She does not know she is infectious.

I doubt that the insurance company will pay out under these circumstances - because it is speculative. That imo does not justify cancelling a holiday (whhich is in the insurance companies eyes who admittedly will have a second agenda)

There is, in my mind at least, a big difference between taking out someone who might have been exposed to chicken pox, and taking out someone who definitely has been exposed. Just like there's a difference between driving a car which might suddenly suffer brake failure (but the chances are low because the brakes have been functioning normally) and taking out a car when you know the brakes are dodgy. Both are risking harm to other people, but in the second case the chances of harm are higher, and the person taking the car out knows that there is a problem with the brakes.

So if both cars are involved in accidents because the brakes fail, the first driver isn't responsible in the way that the second driver is - because the first driver had no idea that there was a problem with the brakes.

Haunted - chicken pox is very contagious - I caught it by just glancing round the bedroom door to check that the child I was babysitting was sleeping soundly - I didn't go near him or bend over him - I was in the room for a very short period of time. The op's dd2 has been in the company of her sister for the full time she's been ill, and for the day before the first spot appeared, when she was at her most infectious - therefore the chances of her catching it are pretty high.

they may be high they may not be, the op just doesnt know, and i wouldnt cancel a holiday becauase my child 'might' be incubating chickenpox, when ds1 got chickenpox i thought ds2 would get it as well, he was exposed to it, they were at home together the whole time but he didnt get it! he did get it a year or so later, by which time ihad ds3 and ds4, neither ds3 or ds4 caught it from ds2! despite the fact they were exposed to it. ds3 got it some time later, ds4 didnt catch it from him either and despite him and dd (no 5) being exposed to it loads, esp ds4 at pre-school (he is about the only one at pre-school NOT to have caught it!) they still havent got it.

so when my children had chickenpox we stayed indoors, however once the spots were scabbed over should i have then stayed in until i was sure the others didnt have it? thats insane, you cant live your life that way, with 5 children i would have had weeks quaranteening myself nad them, yet NONE of them actually caught it from their siblings and i dont think that is that unusual actually, esp when the younger siblings are bfed (as mine were) none of mine actually caught chickenpox until after they stopped bfeeding, i had it very badly as a child so i suspect they were getting my immunity via bmilk and that protected them? but seriously should i have stayed in with them each time waiting for them to get it? i would have had 2 or 3 wks with each one where i couldnt go out or go on holiday etc, waiting for them to maybe get chickenpox and it would have been for nothing as they didnt catch it from their siblings.

the younger sibling may get it, she may not and you cant keep a child in because they 'may' be harbouring chickenpox! op if i were you i would keep an eye on your younger dd, wiht mine the week before the spots came out they all had colds, bit of a temp etc from other friends experiences i think this is quite common?

but if i were you i wouldnt cancel a holiday because she may get it? if you stay at home and she doesnt get it what a waste of your holiday time!

I think if there was a strong possibility that my child were contagious I would not go. A cold will not cause still birth or other horrific complications in a pregnant woman who has not had chicken pox.

I had no idea before dd the problems chicken pox could cause so I understand others don't either. Read the links and find out for yourself and then make your decision. Personally I couldn't take the risk knowing the consequences.

As someone that has handled a range of live virus samples for research purposes I think I understand infectivity rates. I am also fully aware that chicken pox is extremely serious for certain groups of the population.

Chances are pretty high but not 100% that dd2 will have been infected. This chance is lowered still by the fact that the op is still bf (and is presumably immune as most of adult population are).
Dd2 will only be infectious for 2-3 days without spots. The chances of her being on the flight in this 'blind' infectious period are low (but not zero) given the timescales described in op. On paper the earliest she would be infectious from day 13. This assumes that dd1 was infectious the maximum quoted 2 days before spots, that infection took place at first available opportunity, and that dd2 has the shortest quoted incubation period of 15 days.
They fly on day 12 - which I know is close to day 13, and all the quotes with respect to incubation and infectivity are 100% reliable.

Op has said that she will seek professional advice from gp which is absolutely the right thing to do, and should over-rule any opinions on this thread.

Op has been advised to discuss with travel insurers and I expect that they will not validate a claim under these circumstances.

If they will not validate such a claim, and given that it is still a speculative risk, why should they lose out financially?

Get DD2 the chicken pox vaccine and go on holiday! She may get a few spots but the vaccine will ensure it is mild and may well be in time so she doesn't get it at all. You can't put your whole life on hold just in case DD2 is infectious, I know loads of siblings who haven't caught it from each other then have had it years later. Enjoy your hols.

PercyPickle the number of pregnant women not immune to chicken pox is tiny and most women will be sensible enough to have been vaccinated before becoming pregnant.

phew, not just me thinking about the vaccine then! I've had it myself (better late than never!) and not 2 weeks later DD2 came down with it. Lucky escape me thinks!

Thanks Icarriedawatermelon2 - now I sound like an irresponsible minority! Of all the people to cross post with...

You not irresponsible, perhaps there should be more information out there on these things.

I never heard of a vaccine till CP was rampant in my area and I realised that DD1 (4) was likely to get it at nursery, then would give it to me and DD2 (6mo then) together a week later - which sounded like 2 or 3 weeks of unimaginable hell. So I looked into alternatives pdq!

Out of interest, when you thought about getting pregnant did your mum not say your hadn't had CP? I guess a small number of women may not be in the position to know....

Remember that DC will need a top up later on. My GP suggested 18 to be on the safe side.

I'm no expert but I think the numbers of pregnant women without immunity varies from area to area. In London where a large number of people grew up outside uk the rates of immunity can be much lower.

I may be astonishingly ill informed but I don't think that many people know about the dangers or to get immunity tested and have a vaccine before pregnancy.

Doing the research and getting medical advice are sensible things to do regardless.

Northern can you really not see the difference in likelihood of a child catching CP, and a child whose brother has CP going on to catch CP. you are either being deliberately obtuse or a little bit thick. I suspect the former.

As decent civilised people we have a duty to protect others where we can, even if they are strangers to us.

My DC1 caught CP when she was 16mths, my DC2 was still BF and the terror of him being hospitalised was absolutely comparable to the guilt I felt when I became aware that a woman at a party I had been at before I was aware that DC1 had CP was pregnant and not immune and was waiting for the results of tests to discover whether she or her baby had been effected.

I didn't know her, but with with my own child in hospital the idea that I could have even unknowingly been responsible for the potential loss of her child was hideous.

CP is a serious - 20% fatality rate - in infants under 12 weeks, perhaps they should all be staying in doors also?!

icarriedawatermelon2, I went to numerous CP parties as a child, cuddles and all. Mum always said that I must have natural immunity, or caught it but so mildy she didn't notice. I can't remember why I took her word for it through 2 pregnancies, but when CP roared through DD1s nursery I re-thought and managed to get a blood test. No immunity.

(BTW I have no idea if there is such a thing as natural immunity, or whether the blood test would show it!)

Sara - what is the OP supposed to be protecting people from? She may have a child who may be infectious - but there's no way to know. And yet her public duty is to keep away from people just in case?
I repeat - CP is endemic in our community. The actions of any individual make no difference to the general risk. If you are vulnerable to CP you may catch it - not because any individual is 'to blame' but because it's an invisible infectious disease spread by close contact and generally children and adults are not vaccinated against it. In the case you outline you would NOT have been responsible for the events. It's a virus - you don't control or command it. Incidentally the RCOG guidance specifically states there is NO evidence that chicken pox causes miscarriage in early pregnancy.

"Things is - we could all be responsible for terrible happenings every time we step out of the door. Things we know about and things we don't. It's completely unfair to hold the OP to such a high - and impossible standard when none of the rest of us meet that or could hope to."

Hear hear!