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Children's health

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Original poster

Advice/support/experience needed four year old collapsed and in hospital overnight.

71 replies

flippyfloppy · 21/05/2012 17:28

Hi there, I'm feeling a bit shell shocked at the moment, bear with me it's a long post!

We had a seemingly "normal" day with DD yesterday we were playing in living room when I left the room to walk into the kitchen. WIthin a few seconds of me being in kitchen I heard DD sobbing she came into kitchen, kind of staggering, clutching at chest, I asked her what was wrong, if she had banged it or bumped into something and she was just starting to cry, I picked her up and she collapsed in my arms. SHe was unconscious for about ten seconds, lips went blue, face whiter than white, I was hysterical shouting for DH to call ambulance. When she came round she went hysterical then calmed down, they wouldn't send an ambulance because she had come round so we went striaght to A&E in car where she was drifiting in and out of consciousness. When we got there she was coming round and seemed to be getting "better". She was in hospital overnight, stats all fine, two ECG's normal, and they have not been able to say what it was or why. SHe has been referred to a cardiac paediatrician in a months time and a seizure clinic outpatients but I just can't get my head around this happening to a seemingly healthy four year old . They said I may never find out why this happened but I can't accept that. The image of her in my arms with blue lips is haunting me and I am worried sick about it happening again.

In hindsight she was more clingy yesterday and said a couple of times she wanted to be on her own ?!? not like her, she was a but hot from playing in garden but no temperature. Should I be pushing for more investigations. Anyone have any experience or ideas as to what it could be.

She seems fine today, unlike her parents.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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dikkertjedap · 21/05/2012 18:03

What a scary experience. Could you ask for a blood test, to see if she is suffering from a virus or something like that? Because if so, you can only find out by doing the blood test now, if you wait a month it will have gone.

I have no idea what other lines of inquiry you could pursue. I agree with you, you want to get to the bottom of this. So you really need to speak with an experienced paediatrician to find out what possible causes this may have.

How ridiculous that the ambulance didn't want to come!

Good luck.

Sirzy · 21/05/2012 18:19

What a scary experience. I would put in a complaint about the ambulance, that is a situation which most people would have used an ambulance.

Hopefully the tests show it was a one off, but at least they are taking it seriously so I hope whatever the outcome you get reassurance.

Original poster

flippyfloppy · 21/05/2012 18:25

Thank you for the reply, yes a friend has today asked if it could have been a virus, they mentioned they "might" take bloods last night but they didn't.

As for the ambulance, it is the first time I've ever had to dial 999, and I was desperate and I felt we were so let down. They said because she was now responsive they would get a nurse to ring us back?!?! We had to ring 999 again in car on way to hospital as she was drifting in and out of consciousness, and it was like talking to a recorded message, the nurse did actually ring back ten minutes after we arrived in A and E.

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desertgirl · 21/05/2012 18:30

incredibly frustrating but I think sometimes they just can't tell what happened no matter what tests they do. And I think with a one off, it is even harder. At least you are going to see people who should know what they are doing - in the meantime, would suggest staying away from Dr Google otherwise you will get very stressed about a lot of unlikely things, but if you notice anything different about her, make a little note in case it is relevant.

neverquitesure · 21/05/2012 18:33

I'm actually quite horrified that they didn't send an ambulance to your poor DD. I think you are going to have to fight for answers sadly. Hopefully someone on here will be able to offer a medical perspective on what it could be.

Original poster

flippyfloppy · 21/05/2012 18:37

Thanks everyone, I wondered if I had overreacted in my opinion that they should have sent an ambulance so I am glad you have reaffirmed what I thought. I will lodge a complaint, it was a relief when we got through to the operator and then utter disbelief when they said no ambulance.

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Original poster

flippyfloppy · 21/05/2012 18:42

Yes thanks about Dr Google advice, I have actually restrained myself as I am scared of what it may throw up.

I think the fact that there is no explanation is so hard to deal with, i told the doctor I find it hard to accept that it was just one of those things?!?! but they said it often is. They said they allow every child one seizure and after that they look into it more. I have so many what ifs, what if she was upstairs alone, at school....

I am pleased about the referrals but they seem so far away at the moment.

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Original poster

flippyfloppy · 21/05/2012 18:43

Dikkertajap would you go to GP for bloods?? Or ring ward back up?

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Sirzy · 21/05/2012 18:45

Flippy they should have sent an ambulance. Before now when I have been in a and e with Ds someone has come in with their child in an ambulance. The handover went something like "he fell down two steps and has a suspected broken wrist" (they were subsequently put in the waiting room where she complained they had come in via ambulance so shouldn't have to wait!)

If that deserves an ambulance than your Dd certainly did!

Northernlurker · 21/05/2012 18:49

Two things - firstly yes complain about the ambulance. How dare the operator make that call! An ambulance should have been sent.

Secondly - the referrals are in which is good but you can still use your GP for reassurance, information and chasing the hospital. Book an appointment, ask the receptionist if any GP has a particular interest either in paeds or neurology. Go along, tell them the story and ask for their opinion. Ask them to chase things up. Stress how worried you are. Push for action.

neverquitesure · 21/05/2012 18:50

Whilst I would agree in steering well clear of Dr Google, I did just have a quick peek and the consensus is very much that it is unlikely to be serious and unlikely to ever happen again.

I suppose all you can do is watch her like a hawk for a few weeks and have some faith that if it did, God forbid, happen again she would in all probability bounce back from it as she did before.

I feel terrible for you though, and know if it was one of mine I would be terrified and haunted by that awful memory

Original poster

flippyfloppy · 21/05/2012 18:53

Thank you all so much for posts I am feeling better already just talking about it.

My plan is to ring GP in morning ( will ask about specialists in surgery northern lurker thank you) and I will also lodge a complaint with north east ambulance service.

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Original poster

flippyfloppy · 21/05/2012 18:55

Thank you neverquitesure that is what the doctors said it may be so let's hope that is the case. And thank you for googling on my behalf!

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Original poster

flippyfloppy · 21/05/2012 18:56

And yes she is on velcro with me at the moment ( until she is 18) xx

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Finallygotaroundtoit · 21/05/2012 18:58

What a worrying thing to happen!

Regarding taking blood to check out causes - it would really distress your DD and may not provide any answers. I expect staff were reluctant to do it for that reason.

Lots of DC have a one off episode like this and as already suggested the cause is never found.

Do you think she may have been breath holding - perhaps in response to a sudden pain? Some toddlers do this till they go blue and pass out. Instinctive breathing then takes over. Horrible to witness but they never come to any harm.

Although it was awful for you, the decision not to send an ambulance was right - she was conscious and coming round. The ambulance was then free for a life threatening event

pickypicky · 21/05/2012 18:58

Hi flippy hope your dd is feeling better. A very similar thing happened to my 6 year old dd a few weeks ago. She had a bit of a cold and was tired and clingy and then she lay on the sofa with a headache.

All of a sudden she said he heart was bursting and I could feel it beating very fast. Then she went into a sort of faint, came to and was very drowsy. She was the most deathly colour.

She is asthmatic and sometimes it is hard to hear her wheeze so we took her to OOH and the doctor checked her out very carefully. He couldn't hear any wheeze but he put it down to her asthma and gave her steroids for a few days.

She was a bit more tired than usual for a few days but was as right as rain in no time.

I'm still not sure it was asthma but no other evidence to say what it was.

Maybe it is some sort of 'mystery virus' that's going round but no doubt it is very scary.

CervixWithASmile · 21/05/2012 19:00

I'm so sorry that happened but the fact they wouldn't send an ambulance is absolutely disgusting. I would very much want an answer on why not to that one.

Finallygotaroundtoit · 21/05/2012 19:03

Why disgusting cervix? The child was OK

Sirzy · 21/05/2012 19:04

Thats irrelevant, they didn't know that at the time. They had a call to say a child had collapsed for no reason - I would say that was a pretty good reason to call for an ambulance wouldn't you?

pickypicky · 21/05/2012 19:06

I have to agree with Cervix on this one. A small child clutching their chest and collapsing sounds to me like it warrants an ambulance.

We have had to dial 999 for dd a couple of times when she was younger because of asthma and they always sent an ambulance. Once she was bluelighted to hospital and once they checked her over, put her on oxygen for a while and made sure she was ok but didn't bring her in.

Original poster

flippyfloppy · 21/05/2012 19:10

At the time we called the ambulance she was not ok, she was unconscious. Although she did come round, I wouldn't want to wish our drive to hospital on anyone, she was drifting in and out of consciousness and we were so frightened, stuck behind buses, slow cars, it was the longest most scary journey ever. We pulled over at one point.

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dikkertjedap · 21/05/2012 19:10

If you have a contact number for the ward I would ring the ward and say that you really would like to have a bloodtest done. You could ask your GP but most GPs will not do a bloodtest on children - they will send them to hospital for the test and this route may take a bit too long.

The main reason why I would ask for a bloodtest now is to find out whether she has some form of viral/bacterial infection which might possibly explain what has happened. If you wait too long the markers may no longer be there, that is why I would push to have it done tomorrow.

Bloodtests are not nice for children though so it is a trade off between the discomfort of the child on the one hand and getting more information on what may have caused this on the other hand. If you do decide on a bloodtest, do make sure they use a numbing cream (EMLA) or spray and distract her as much as possible during the test with a small present/treat afterwards. If you could have her suck something sweet (lollipop) during the test that may also help as the current view is that sweet stuff reduces the pain sensation in small children.

CervixWithASmile · 21/05/2012 19:17

She was unconscious at the time the ambulance was called, even though she came round, unless the have a crystal ball they don't know that she was not going to collapse again. In fact, OP said she drifted out of consciousness on the journey to hospital.

To add to that? I'm not sure I would be a safe, undistracted driver on the way to the hospital knowing my child was in and out of consciousness. Maybe OP should have got the bus? .

Seriously, it's disgusting and I can't believe there's an argument about it.

Northernlurker · 21/05/2012 19:18

The child had lost consciousness with no previous history of anything of the sort. Although she appeared to revive she could have collapsed again on the way to hospital. Her parents were put in an horrible position and it's only in hindsight that decision to not send an ambulance seems reasonable. We know she made it to hospital ok now - but there was no way to know that at the time. My training in hospital admin when arranging admissions was always that paediatric admissions went direct to A&E and the ward doctors would see them there. We had a case many years ago where a GP told parents to bring a child in. By the time they'd parked and carried them in then got all the way up to the ward the child had died. I'm not saying that to scare the OP - was completely different circumstances and it was the GP's mistake sadly - but to show that children are tricky and you should always play safe because what would be a reasonable course of action for an adult patient is NOT so for a child. The ambulance service operator should have been equipped to know that.

Original poster

flippyfloppy · 21/05/2012 19:19

Thanks for that dikkertjap, they nurse did say if they were going to take blood they would numb hands but it never happened.

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