Advice/support/experience needed four year old collapsed and in hospital overnight.

[flippyfloppy]

Hi there, I'm feeling a bit shell shocked at the moment, bear with me it's a long post!

We had a seemingly "normal" day with DD yesterday we were playing in living room when I left the room to walk into the kitchen. WIthin a few seconds of me being in kitchen I heard DD sobbing she came into kitchen, kind of staggering, clutching at chest, I asked her what was wrong, if she had banged it or bumped into something and she was just starting to cry, I picked her up and she collapsed in my arms. SHe was unconscious for about ten seconds, lips went blue, face whiter than white, I was hysterical shouting for DH to call ambulance. When she came round she went hysterical then calmed down, they wouldn't send an ambulance because she had come round so we went striaght to A&E in car where she was drifiting in and out of consciousness. When we got there she was coming round and seemed to be getting "better". She was in hospital overnight, stats all fine, two ECG's normal, and they have not been able to say what it was or why. SHe has been referred to a cardiac paediatrician in a months time and a seizure clinic outpatients but I just can't get my head around this happening to a seemingly healthy four year old . They said I may never find out why this happened but I can't accept that. The image of her in my arms with blue lips is haunting me and I am worried sick about it happening again.

In hindsight she was more clingy yesterday and said a couple of times she wanted to be on her own ?!? not like her, she was a but hot from playing in garden but no temperature. Should I be pushing for more investigations. Anyone have any experience or ideas as to what it could be.

She seems fine today, unlike her parents.

Thanks cervix, husband did have a near miss pulling out from behind a stationary bus, he was frantic.

I can only imagine :(

It is just wrong that they didn't send an ambulance.
And it is wrong that they didn't do a blood test, at least to establish if it was a viral thing.

There might just not have been an ambulance, there is not an infinite number and you can't take one from a job it's already on.
Our area may only have three vans for a huge area at a lot of times.
I do think one should have been sent if there was one but it may not have been possible

Actually they can and do take them from jobs they are already on if a more urgent job arises. I called one for DS when he had breathing problems and an ambulance that was going to a pregnant lady was redirected to us as he was deemed higher need.

They do if the job is not considered an emergency but it is not beyond the realms of possibility that all available vehicles were already engaged in emergencies.

They should and do find them from out of the area though. There is no excuse to tell someone whos child has collapsed they cant have an ambulance

Yes but they didn't say you're getting the next free crew did they? The oP was told one wouldn't be sent because her child's condition did not warrant it. That's the issue - because there's no way the call operator could/should make that call with the info he/she had at that point.

Working in this sector it does happen, out of area may be possible in some instances but it is not a miracle cure and ambulances are not always available.
What they should be is honest and say that sometimes it is quicker to get to hospital under your own steam. Today it has taken us well over thirty minutes to get to an emergency which was in our area about ten miles away. It wasn't in any way ideal but it is not necessarily just an excuse.

What you describe her behaviour to be like during the day before the event sounds like the prodrome to an epileptic seizure. Hope tou get some answers soon.

Then you tell the family that, you don't just make the call yourself that an ambulance can't be sent. What if that family didn't have access to a car?

I agree, control should be honest. Just that people expect, quite rightly, that an ambulance should be available but due to lots of factors, mainly , numerous people calling ambulances for non-emergencies, there are not enough of them.
In this case, I think, an ambulance should have been available but the ideal just does not happen all the time.

Interesting hearing the different perspectives on the ambulance situation, I have emailed the complaints dept about the call if only so they will look into it and provide an explanation as I felt let down by whole service, explanations, advice etc..

Finally - I have heard about the breath holding thing but my thoughts are that it was the pain came first then she collapsed I don't think she was holding breath as she was sobbing when telling me about the pain.

I've also rang and spoken to ward sister about bloods and it is as Finally said they said it would have caused distress and the doctor did not request it as otherwise healthy, stats fine etc...

I am booked on CPR course through Hospital on Monday and I am going to make an appointment with GP. I think that is all ground covered for now.

Thanks again everyone x

And thank you for your post picky pick, sorry to hear about your DD and hope she is well now. I'm sure it was very traumatic for you to and thank you for sharing your experience.

Framey - the doctor said it was almost "reassuring" her behavior prior and after the episode (vacant, drifting in and out of consciousness) because it points more to a seizure than cardiac problems. Had she not collapsed then I would not have thought anything of her behaviour that day however I will now be acutley tuned in to it. When I asked what to do if I think it is going to happen again they just said to make her safe. Can you avoid a seizure happening?? THen she just said that children are allowed one seizure and wouldn't be looked in to, however I did push it and we have got a follow up with the seizure clinic.

We have had to call an ambulance three times - I was always of the opinion that an ambulance was last resort if you couldn't get there yourself.

Until DS, his asthma nurse explained that children can go downhill so fast and are so unpredictable that she made me promise I would 'always' call for help.

Do you not have first response vehicles? In my area they send them first to assess and administor help if needed, they can also make the decision to cancel the ambulance if they think its not needed.

Not read all the posts, sorry in a rush to get out.

But one thing I think you must get organised is how to do paediatric resuscitation. The children's ward may have some info on this. My dgs was v sick as a baby on NiCU and my DD was taught basic resus. I know this is a terrifying thought but the case of the footballer demonstrates how important these skills are.

I think you are right to feel let down and hope you get an explanation although don't hold your breath for it.
The vast majority of frontline staff are frustrated by their inablity to provide the care we want to the people that really need it WHEN they need it.
Good luck and I hope your DD remains well

Cockbollocks- there are fast repsonse vehicles around here, we see them in lay bys nearby all the time.

Sneezecake - I am booked on course on Monday for childrens CPR through hospital.

Thank you NCIS.

Dreadful re the ambulance. The fact that there may not have been one available does not excuse the operator from telling the OP that a nurse would call back. Getting to hospital fast was the priority and fannying about with a call back was the wrong thing to do. I've always had it drummed in to me that if in any doubt, call an ambulance (I've never had to although the OOH dr sent one to us once for a much less poorly child).

I hope you get some answers soon OP. It sounds like a horrible experience.

I my very recent paed first aid training, we were told an ambulance should always be called for an unexplained collapse/seizure for the very reason that it is unexplained.

I take it that your DDs temperature was normal at the hospital OP? A child at the nursery I work has febrile convulsions. We had to call an ambulance once and paramedics were there on minutes. Once she was stable they took her to a&e where she had bloods done quickly so they could treat the underlying infection. She now has 10mls rather than 5mls at the first sign of a raised temperature.

Voldermort - temp was normal

Voldermort- yes temp was normal.

Thanks treefumaster

Just to reassure you in case your dd does need bloods. It need not be really distressing at all. Both my kids have had bloods taken at various ages - dd being the most recent - she was 14 months and didn't even notice it happening because they used elma cream and she had a drink of juice. It need not be a big deal. When I say she didn't notice I mean she literally didn't notice.