GP not being very helpful regarding Circumcision

[Debster7808]

I went to see the GP recently at the first check-up after DS2 was born, and I said that because DS1 was circumcised (-he was born in US, where it kind of gets done as a routine just after boys are born-), we wanted to get DS2 done as well, while he's still a newborn. I was really surprised when the GP tried to talk me out of getting it done, which means that I'm a bit lost as to where next to turn to get this done. I can understand that circumcision isn't available on the NHS, which is fine, but if I want to go private, don't I need a GP referral? Should I just seek a second GP's opinion?
Anyone have any experience of getting their boys circumcised in a culture that generally doesn't do it?

Insults are uneccessary, from anyone.

Debster - given that this IS a culture and country where circumcision is not the norm unless for religious or medical reasons, you cannot be surprised that most people are against it?

I would not circumcise my child (even if married to a jew or muslim - I would take out an injunction against it it there was presssure) because:
-The HIV 'protection' - so what? No way is losing a foreskin a reliable way to prevent HIV infection, so my sons will be brought up to know that it's a condom every single time.
-Hygiene. Bacteria are a part of our lives and very necessary. Vaginas need 'good bacteria' for instance, so vaginal sprays are a bad thing. My son's will be taught to wash every day and to think of their partner re keeping clean. If there is a bacteria problem that manifests as small or smeg, they are not washing enough - circumcised or not! The idea that a circumcised man could get away with washing a bit less is not a selling pint for oral sex with me, believe me!

• Pleasure. I have done my 'field' research. A foreskin offers more options.

-Aesthetics. Our tastes are highly conditioned to what we think is normal. Some women (even) from communities where excision is common find western women's vulvas very ugly, and part of the stigma of that is a reason why FGM remains common. I don't find foreskins any more or less attractive than skinned. Current commentary suggests that labia are now considered 'untidy'. Will we recommend labioplasty for newborn girls? I bloody hope not. -Risk. Tiny, but see the threads on this site where people fret about GAs etc, and want to avoid intervention at all cost. there IS a risk, why take it? -Ethics. I could not make this decision on behalf of a child, given that it is not medically necessary. If a man feels strongly enough about it when they grow up, they can be circumcised - if they feel strongly enough, the pain won't be an issue, people do similiar for looks, as someone has said re piercings.

Good luck with your decision making, but please don't be surprised at people not understanding your pov.

There is a belief and there is a legal definition of who is considered a person and what is not.

Good post IndieSkies also the posts about the monetary aspect in the US.

Everything IndieSkies said.

I couldn't do this to my baby boy who is asleep right next to me. It's cosmetic surgery really, not medical. Don't babies go through enough pain and discomfort as it is? My little boy is currently struggling with teething because he's in so much pain, as well as his jabs. Why add to the list of upsetting, painful things he has to go through?

Legally a mother can choose to have her son circumcised. However there are those who believe it is morally wrong even though she has the legal right to make this decision.

Similarly legally a woman can terminate a pregnancy, the foetus is not a legal entity. However there are those who believe it would be morally wrong even though the mother has the right to choose legally.

Why are the first set of moral objectors allowed to state their justifications and beliefs on a thread where someone has already made a decision and try to change her mind, but the second set are not.

OP - surely if it was such a good thing all the non-circumcised men would be rushing out to have the operation. But they are not.

And of grown ups that are circumcised, after an initial period of time where everything is more sensitive and readjusting to its new reality, afterwards they reckon they are worse off, not better off.

Surely they are the group that are best placed to make an informed comment, not those who have only ever experienced one way or the other - who to some extent have a personal psychological reason for thinking that whichever way they are is best, plus the effect of the lots of brainwashing from their parents (and culture/society in general) that they made the best choice for their child.

It seems that you are surprised by the strength of opinion against circumcision that you have encountered. Hopefully this in itself will make you consider that maybe this is not the simple thing that you thought it to be initially but that you will do your son the simple respect of researching the facts now that you are in a country where for starters there are not the same groups with strong financial and moral vested interests trying to persuade you to have the snip.

nailak - what do you hope to achieve by your posts? They are nothing to do with the OP.

Again, nailak. Nobody is questioning the legality of the male circumcision, although people (rightly in my opinion) questioning the law which allows boys' mutilation, when girls or even animals are protected from their healthy organs being chopped off.

Abortions are totally different because women are allowed to make decisions that concern their bodies and their bodies alone. Anybody who is imposing their pro-life agenda on adult women is totally out of order. Incidentally, nobody is objecting to grown up men deciding on going ahead with chopping off their own foreskin.

MrsMicawber - I dont think its acceptable for religious reasons either.

Because a lot of people give too much credibility to the fairy-tales about "covenAnts".

I personally think circumcision it is a form mutilation whether done to conform to the twisted aesthetics or for the benefit of imaginary friends.

a form OF

that is ok, i have plenty of spelling mistakes myself

why are you bringing an irrelevant issue of niqabs?

out of interest Ive just searched on circumcision and come across an article which I wish I had never read. A theory on why some babies dont cry in agony is that they still have a large amount of anaesthetic in their system (can take up to a week to leave) which can sometimes help with the pain, but another theory is that the babies are in such unbearable pain they lapse into a semi coma or simply 'withdraw' from the pain

Obviously for every study that states one thing there is another rebuking it, but christ even if there is a slight chance that this is right why the hell would anyone want to have it done.

Ooh I love a good circumcision thread. Reassures me that there are still stupid, stupid people in the world who really ought to undergo an IQ test before they're allowed to breed.

OP, when you are the owner of a foreskin then I'll concede your right to decide what to do with it. While your decision involves slicing bits off your newborn son because you think it looks better then I reserve the right to think you're more than a little bit stupid.

I've just asked DH, who is the owner of a foreskin, whether he has any burning desire to be circumcised / feels he has missed out by not being circumcised / has concerns about the health of his penis because of not being circumcised and, surprisingly, he is not keen to join the invisible queue of stupid people willing men to have lumps of himself lopped off because he feels that his foreskin has served him well for 40 years. What a shock.

As for religious reasons, pah!

HTH

MrsMicawber - if the cyclist has to remove their helmet so their face can be seen (for security reasons for eg) then of course the woman wearing the niqab should do the same IMO.

Not that its relevant to this argument, unless its a swiss army niqab and can also be used to perform circumcisions.

MrsMicawber - maybe the difference is because the niqab doesnt cause any physical harm to another human being but a circumcision does?

Gribble,that is what i said up thread,the babies response to such pain is often to go into shock or ' withdraw' from the pain,and that can be why they do not always cry out

MrsMicawaber,I think it is unbelievably awful regardless of religion.HTH.