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Children's health

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Original poster

Am now crapping myself with worry (very long)

54 replies

Reallybloodystressed · 25/02/2011 21:44

DS has recurrent dislocated elbow. We've probably had to take him to A and E eight times in his life (he's 2.3) in his life to have it popped back in. The last 3 times he's done it, its been in circumstances that probably sounded a bit implausible.

One time, he pulled it out himself by tugging at his arm trying to pull his coat off.

The last time it happened, he was being cared for by my sister as me and my DH were away for the night and his 3 year old sister did it by pulling him off a toy because she wanted a turn.

Anyway...I got a call today one of the local health visitors today. She wants to see me next week to see if there is 'anything she can do to help' although she admitted to me on the phone that this wouldn't be any kind of medical help.

I asked her what had trigged the referral, and she said that the hospital emails them whenever a child comes into A&E with an accident, and that it is all routine, etc.

I don't believe her. He's obviously been referred to them because they suspect child abuse.

My worries are this:

A) my ds is now on some kind of social services list and is in the system and it's going to be difficult to convince them that we are not pulling his elbow out on purpose.
B) the health visitor lied to me about the circumstances of the referral (i really don't believe they have the resources to visit every family who turn up to A&E) and she is not going to be honest with me about other things.

I'm usually a very level headed person, but I'm really anxious about where this is all going.

Does anyone have any words of wisdom to offer at all?

My worries are this:

A) my son is on some kind of social services 'list'

OP posts:

Original poster

Reallybloodystressed · 03/03/2011 14:22

She's just really bloody upset me. She was so patronising. I'm definitely not going to call her back.

OP posts:

mistressploppy · 03/03/2011 14:24

Owlingate · 03/03/2011 15:38

Can't believe this! My DS1 did the same thing on the same elbow the same number of times at about the same age! Now we have learnt to do it ourselves. HV has to contact you after 3 times I think - they used to make me feel bad about not pushing for a paed referral but surely if A&E felt he needed one they would've done it.

Mentioned it to the paed we saw later for other reasons and they said its not unusual - once its been done once its likely to happen again. FWIW he only did it twice on the other arm and he is double jointed in all his other joints except hips.

maxybrown · 03/03/2011 16:49

Ooh I would be angry too, don't blame you. The child I used to nanny for years ago had this - same age as your son and he was at A&E lots too! Just because she personally hasn't come across it!! TBH a lot of HV spout rubbish (not all I know)

I would see GP and agree, not contact her - tell her you thought her very patronising too!

ExitPursuedByABear · 03/03/2011 16:57

Poor you, but glad that you have turned from worry to anger during this thread.

Take him to the GP, get something written on his notes and then ignore the bloody HV.

PUMBA · 03/03/2011 17:38

I can assure you we see loads of little kids with dislocated /pulled elbows, to be honest it's not an injury that causes alarm bells to ring as it happens quite easily . No harm in seeing the GP but please don't stress I would love a pound for every pulled elbow it would supplement my salary nicely ....

SpawnChorus · 03/03/2011 17:43

She sounds bonkers. DD had a recurrent dislocated elbow at the same age (prob 4-5 times, plus another couple of times when I managed to pop it back in myself), and it never occurred to me to take her to the GP about it. The A&E docs had explained that it was quite common, and that if it gets dislocated once, it's more prone to happen again, and that she'd grow out of it. There was nothing more to be done about it as far as I was concerned!

theyCallMeHer · 03/03/2011 17:46

The thing is if you don't call back you may end up having a social worker knocking at your door.

Indith · 03/03/2011 18:00

I owuld take him to the GP, tell GP that HV instructed you to take him. GP will tell you not to worry and message will get passed ontot HV. HOpefully that will be the end of the story.

My elbow dislocated at the drop of a hat when I was a child. Once it came out when i was pushing my sister on a swing, I have a lot of hazy preschool childhood memories of pulled elbows! After the first couple of times the Dr just showed my parents how to put it back in . I doubt the GP would do that these days though!

PonceyMcPonce · 03/03/2011 18:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NorbertDentressangle · 03/03/2011 18:15

Telling you to go to the GP is crazy as surely they will just agree with what the paediatrician (who presumably has more experience with children's elbows) says and also they would have referred on to that paediatrician anyway but you've already seen them .

I was waiting for one of those HV calls a while ago when DD and DS both ended up in A&E with identical injuries a few months apart. Luckily both injuries happened elsewhere (school and a sports venue) so I felt that that helped make it look less suspicious!

Its amazing how you can feel guilty for no reason though isn't it?

sharbie · 03/03/2011 18:21

ds has this but with his shoulders - we have been to gp several times over the years only to be told there was nothing that could be done and he would grow out of it.they really didn't want to know.
when his come out he puts them back - eeeek.
once he was ref to a physio as we insisted something be done.i suppose it is happening less now as he is older - we were told he wd grow into his joints.
good luck with gp - try not to worry.

ShowOfHands · 03/03/2011 18:21

The thing is it IS routine and if she doesn't know anything about the type of injury and is trained to look for a GP's input then she is just doing her job.

I KNOW all of the problems with HVs but they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. She's
doing a job and tbh, blowing up at her on the phone isn't helping anybody. She's operating within a framework. She is NOT accusing you.

My poor hv who is luckily brilliant and a good friend, walks a fine line between people assuming she's neglectful and missing child abuse cases through laziness (media influence) and then being told she's interfering by following procedures.

You do not have to see a hv at all if you choose not to. It's an optional service.

risingstar · 03/03/2011 18:28

health visitors are not my favourite people by a long chalk- but she is doing her job and i am sorry, but i do find it a little reassuring that someone is taking it upon themselves to follow up children who have been to hospital. this thread has been useful though because i never knew they did this and so am less likely to panic if they call.

OP- suggestion- go to GP- it won't do any harm at all.Ask him/her to liaise with the HV.

ExitPursuedByABear · 04/03/2011 09:36

Sharbie - I started dislocating my shoulders in my twenties. I could always get the right one back in myself, but not the left one. I once went to hospital three times in 24 hours to have it put back! Have had them both stabilised though now. Hope your son does grow out of it. It is often said that dislocations are one of the most painful things.

sharbie · 04/03/2011 15:40

thanks bear - yes he says it is painful but it does seem to be getting better - he does have huge shoulders though.shame he's not a rugger player or a swimmer.
did yours get better on their own or by surgery or exercise/physio??

flibberdyjibbert · 04/03/2011 15:44

I do have some sympathy for HVs, but there are ways of saying things without being completely patronising....
I'd ask the GP about possible hypermobility.
& really he won't be on any kind of SS 'list' - we see loads of kids who've come in with all sorts of things (drinking bottles of calpol, falling down the stairs) & we ask the HV to pop round & have a chat (although I've been known to apologise in advance to parents about this & makes me inwardly cringe, it's as if parents are stupid & accidents are never allowed to happen..), there's no contacting Social Services or anything like that, there's a lot of processes to be gone through before anyone is put on any kind of list & we'd be obliged to tell you that we were going to contact Social Services if that's what was appropriate to do.

wolfbrother · 04/03/2011 15:52

I think the HV may not realise the difference between a "pulled elbow" type of dislocation (very common in toddlers) and a full blown elbow dislocation (completely and utterly different).

ExitPursuedByABear · 04/03/2011 15:54

Sharbie - Had them both operated on. Putty Plait on one, some sort of lip of cartilige on the other. Had to keep arm in a sling and not lift it for 12 weeks.

Original poster

Reallybloodystressed · 04/03/2011 20:50

I've decided to go to the GP, tell him what the health visitor said and how she upset me by the way she said it and ask him if he can pass on the notes of our conversation to them.

That way, I've been to the GP, but I don't have to talk to her again.

That is, until the next time he pulls his elbow and he we end up in A&E again...

OP posts:

sharbie · 04/03/2011 21:14

ouchee bear but glad it worked out worthwhile

tazmosis · 04/03/2011 23:14

Same thing happened her - DD bit accident prone, 3rd visit to A & E with a dislocated elbow and they stripped her off when they x rayed her, obvioulsy looking to see if any signs of abuse.

I got myself in a right state, but fortunately my HV was a fabulous lady, so I went to see her and she said the hospital had been in touch, but she had told then she knew us and there was nothing to be worried about.

But I understand how worried you were and how cross you are now. Good plan go and see your GP and get it on your sons record.

vintageteacups · 05/03/2011 17:35

She's wwrong when she says she has no medical knowledge - all HVs have to be a trained nurse!!!

when she says dislocation in under 5's is rare, I wonder the hospital mean he's had a pulled elbow?

DD had a pulled elbow age 3 and A&E said dislocation was less likely. With pulled elbow, joint slips out of the ring of cartiledge. After 5 yrs, this is too small for the joint to slip through.
www.northdevonhealth.nhs.uk/patientinformation/a&e/pulled_elbow.html

vintageteacups · 05/03/2011 17:43

Not many people realise, but playing the 'One, two, three, whhhheeeeeeeeeeee game' when you swing toddlers into the air by their hands, is the most common cause of pulled elbow.

rebl · 05/03/2011 17:51

I got this when dd kept tripping up an internal step in the house and hitting her head so she was sick or knocked herself out or slammed her thumb right back on the same damned step. We even got a builder round to quote to have the step removed but at £600 we couldn't afford it. The HV came gave me what felt like the spanish inquisition. Then as he was leaving he watched dd just walk straight across the room towards the step and fall straight over it! He refered her for a sight test just in case (nothing wrong, just plain clumsy). She grew up and grew out of it.

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