How can I tell when it's colic and when it's reflux?

[nickytwotimes]

Hello all.
It's me and my endless questions about ds2 AGAIN.
He's 2 mths old, ebfed and diagnosed with GORD since 4 weeks. He ialso suffers from dreadful wind/lower bowel pain colicky stuff too.
He currently takes infant gaviscon and Ranitadine plus some colief for the wind. He is about to start Domperidon tomorrow.
He is still in a great deal of pain and discomfort a lot of the time and I have great difficulty telling if it is the reflux(sikent) or the wind so am find it difficult to assess how the meds are working out for him.
Any ideas? I just wnat to be able to help him in the most effective way...

How does he feed nicky? Could he be having a growth spurt & that's why he's struggling to sleep as well as the pain?

I spent a long time walking with DD in the wrap or rocking her in the rocking chair just to get her to have decent sleeps. It's a bit of a vicious circle isn't it?

He's feeding really badly this week.
Starts well, then fussing and pulling and screaming.
He's having very small frequent feeds.

Oh nicky this is not good for you. It sounds like he's really really overtired - it might take some tough action to crack it because I think that makes the reflux worse.

After today perhaps you can start again tomorrow and tackle the naps and night sleep along with DH? It used to take me about a week to sort DS out when he was bad. Some nights, he'd fall asleep at 11pm, wake again at 3am and not sleep til 5/6/7am. It was Hell. The only way to get him to sleep sometimes was in pitch black, swaddled, with a dummy and white noise on really really really loud whilst we held and rocked him. He used to take at least 45 minutes before he passed out. Then he'd only sleep if we held him upright. Other times we took him out in the sling at 3am - he'd be screeching away then pass out. God knows what the neighbours thought.

I can give you ideas on how to get his sleep back on track? Might be worth getting a plan so you feel a bit more in control again.

I've got to put DS to bed now but will be back x

yes feeding was a nightmare, he would only eat cauliflower cheese or apple purree (acidic but he had his meds in it) for months!! I think they find it harder to digest things like wheat, bread etc until they get abit better with holding it down. Just my opinion of course from feeding DS.

We were the same with sleep, spent a fortune on baby nests, hammocks, wedges etc. He often 'slept' in a baby bouncer as we were desperate. Only thing that helped was the amby hammock. He slept 5 hours a night from 1st night in it (from 20 mins sleep a night) and was in it till 12 months when we co-slept and still are doing, it's just easier and we get 7-8 hours sleep that way (but he is that bit older, I was nervous in bed with him when he was tiny)

Yes, more ideas would be great thanks igglybuff.

Hi Nicky, hope you're feeling better - it sounds as if you are having an incredibly rough time.
Have you persevered much with the dummy? I think the sucking can be really soothing for babies with reflux as it keeps the acid down. Could you try a different sort? DD liked the mam silicone ones and I know the cherry shaped teats are popular with lots of babies.

I used to gently tap the end of the dummy whisle it was in her mouth to encourage her to keep it in and sometimes wiggle it a bit to help her sleep.

Apologies if you've tried all this already - I know how annoying it is when people give advice when you're at the end of your tether.

Helen - I think we were very lucky in that we got over the worst of it by about 4 months and had stopped all the medication by the time she was 6 months. The main problem with us was the feeding difficulties - she would just scream and fight almost every feed and was very slow to put on weight. By 3 months I'd lost all confidence in breastfeeding & started mixed feeding and expressing a lot of her feeds and just breastfed her at night and when she would accept it. I think this took a lot of pressure off and we both chilled out a bit.
We were lucky that I don't think she's got any intolerance issues. We did BLW and she was fantastic. I am so thankful for that.

The first 12 weeks of her life were without doubt the hardest weeks of mine. I was not in a good way at all.

No, no, mrsjaun, please don't apologise for giving advice! It is much appreciated.
We have a few dummies and hold them in. He will take one for a short time occassionally.

I am hoping things will be better for us too once we pass the 3-4 mth stage...

Hi nicky.

I hope you're better although drained I expect!!

After a low point, I had to take a week to sort out DS's sleep. After a week of trying, he'd be better.

I had to get anal about naps and making sure he wasn't overstimulated. I banned excitement after 4pm and wouldn't let him stay awake more than 45 - 90 mins. He was very excitable!!

It's easier to tackle the morning nap first - so after 40 mins of being awake (inc feed and dressing) I'd watch DS for tiredness and out him to sleep usually by rocking to some dance music as he liked a beat for some mad reason. I'd have him face a boring wall usually in a dim room. He'd nap on me.

Next nap - same again, watch for tired signs and pop in the sling and go for a walk. Sometimes he'd cry but I'd give him the dummy, keep walking and pat his bum to send him to sleep. Sometimes he'd go for two hours, not always though!

Naps later in the day were always harder - I'd need to spend more time winding down and he'd usually stay awake a little longer. Wind down would be carrying him around usually.

We had a super short bedtime routine - and no playing (I was anal). I'd let him watch us from the sling or bouncy chair then change, feed, bed. He would start off the night swaddled in his Moses basket then we co-slept.

It sounds simple - it wasn't. My ILs thought I was mad but if he didn't nap he didn't sleep at night. One evening we had visitors and showed DS off. He didn't sleep til 3am!!!!! Never again.

I became expert at reading his tired signs - he'd get a glazed look, no eye contact, would look away then he'd get super excited, flapping arms etc. So I knew he needed a nap.

Now at 10 months I'm still hot on his day sleep but I have to be otherwise he won't settle.

Perhaps you and DH can try sorting out naps - use any means and stick at it for 20 mins. If it fails, swap or take a break. Your DS will pick up on your tension making it harder to relax him.

It will get better and some days it won't work. But keep trying and it'll pay off.

Yes, very drained!

Thanks for that iggly.
We will give it a go.

Quite often we can get him to snooze, but he wakes again very quickly, even on me/ dh. Will persevere.

GOd, it's bloody hard work, isn;t it?

nicky yes it really really hard work. I lost a lot of weight in the early months through stress - my brother (who doesn't notice this sort of thing) even made worried comments about me!!

Perhaps get him to snooze in a dark room? I used to have an ipod for company as it's pretty miserable otherwise!!!

helen I think it's ok while the baby still has it's own iron stores (they last from 6-9 months). After that, they get their iron from solids or the milk they're on which is when the ranitidine can become a problem. I only found it out by chance as DS's hair was falling out despite him being older. My GP seemed to think it was normal - but how could it be when I ran my fingers through his hair it would come out several strands at a time. ???? I'd also find his cot sheet would have loads of hair on it. So I did some reading and the iron thing was a side effect of the ranitidine. I'm not a medical professional but since I've stopped the ranti and made sure he's not eating foods which trigger the acid reflux, his hair has been fine. If he needed the medication, I would have given supplements instead.

I know exactly what you mean about the ILs. I used to get so angry when MIL would play with DS and claim he was fine when he was doing the manic wide eyed thing In the end DH had to tell them off several times - he'd even take DS off them during visits quite forcibly!! They soon got the message. When (I'm crazy but we want more) we have another DC, there's no way I'm letting them overstimulate them like that. After they'd visited, DS would have terrible nights.

Thanks for messages.

He seems to be getting worse wrt wind/straining all the time, poor wee sod.

Had a slightly better day today, got him to have a couple of good naps, but he is in such pain tonight.

Oh poor thing. How has he been today? Hopefully as he catches up on sleep it'll make it a little better for him and you!

I dont know whether this is going to be helpful or not but here goes... ds1 (now 11) and ds2 (now 5) both had dreadful reflux as babies. I think ds1 survived on about 20 ozs of milk a day till he was about 6 mths as it was so painful for him. DS2 would guzzle milk but on a good day was sick about 40 times. Tried gaviscon, the milk thats already thickened, domperidone and ranatadine. With ds2 I can honestly say I'd never felt so down in my life. At one point I think I seriously thought about putting him in care as I couldnt cope anymore. He wouldnt sleep, everything was covered in sick, I felt I couldnt hand him over to anyone for a cuddle as he'd puke all over them. It did get better honestly (I know that's no help now and when everyone told me it would I seriously thought about murdering them). He was under the hospital and they said there are about 3 different stages when it improves - weaning which it didnt, just got covered in gunk, sitting up as their muscles are stronger - again it didnt or when they're walking and thats when it happened literally overnight. DS2 had really bad constipation because of it and when he strained to poo he'd literally puke up the whole bottle he'd just had. When I think about it now I can't believe its the same child. DS1 had loads of ear infections as a baby as well which the hospital thought may be connected to his reflux. In fact ds1 arched his back so strongly once that he managed to over expand all his blood vessels and they took a couple of days to go back to normal. If there's anything you want to ask then go ahead.

Well, yesterday we managed to get him to have 2 long and 2 short naps. It entailed HOURS of walking in the countryside and I am exhausted.

Today however, he is only having cat naps and is as grumpy as all hell. This evening will no doubt be another nightmare...

I will keep plodding on though, trying to tackle the daytime sleeps!

Your message did help thanks Kath. It is always good to hear from people who have come out the other side!

Don't get too obsessed with the naps though. If they don't always work, then so be it. It's kind of a two step forwards, one step back sometimes three steps and then at some point it gets better. Now at 10 months, DS seems like a different baby. I was talking to DH about how bad things were with DS and we couldn't remember until reading this thread reminded us!!

Ah, sorry to bring back bad memories, Iggly!

I look forward to remembering this period too.

Don't be sorry! It's amazing really - natures way of allowing us to have more as wouldn't if we remembered

It took me 4 years to recover from number one and he was a peice of cake.

DH is booked in for the op.

Lol!

DH told me a depressing stat - something about losing 6 months worth of sleep in the first two years... I think we're way above average!!

Even though my DS is better I still haven't had a full nights sleep. Am going to bed early (again) to catch up. I hope you're looking after yourself x

Just browsing and came across your post. My ds2, now 19mo, has silent reflux and looking back I can honestly say it nearly broke me. I used to sit in the car and cry and no one seemed to know how to help. Anyway I could tell sad stories for hours but what you need is practical advice. I will share what helped for us but as Awful as it is to hear time is the only thing that will really make a difference I am afraid? Sitting crawling and then walking made HUGE differences.
Gaviscon did bugger all. Took husband and sat in doctors surgery until he agreed to refer us to paediatrician. Despite only taking 10oz some days ds didn't lose weight dramatically. Paediatrician was amazing. put on ranitidene and dome peridome straight away and upped the doses when it wasn't working. Doses very weight dependant so need to be reviewed all the time. The major change for us came when she prescribed opeprazole and I think this was at around 4 months. He was on a whole tablet day and night and within a few days he started to sleep. This was from a child who had been waking every 20 minutes and screaming until he lost his voice and collapsed in exhaustion.
Sleeping on his side also really helped. I bought a wedge to hold him in place. Wish I'd been brave enough to put him on his front as when he could roll he has always slept that way since and is much happier.
Weaning was very hard but again made a huge difference and again I wish I'd done it earlier and not waited until 6 months. He did gag on every lump and Even now if something cathesnin his throat he vomits? Its a great party trick.
Cot also always looked like a ski slope is was propped so high. Quite a few nights he slept in his car seat as dared not move him after laps in the car. Push chair at lunchtimes also better.

Sorry really struggling to type on iPad....
Stopped breastfeeding at 8 weeks and he went on neocate. Then restrictive diet of no egg dairy wheat soya until 8 months.

At 19 months he is a happy little fella. Off all meds and eats everything. Gag reflux is very strong and he has only ever been happy feeding himself.
Remaining issues are he is a horrific sleeper as he developed such awful habits. Took hv stepping in at around 14 months with cc to save my marriage and sanity. Also I have a huge guilt that I look back with just a sadness that I wished his whole baby time away as it was so horrific and it is all a blur. But it makes me love him all the more and we have a special bond that we got through it.
Such a waffled. Hope you can sift through it and find something useful!

Gumps what you said really struck a chord - I used to wish ds2's baby time away as well. I seriously wondered if I could put him him care till he was about 18 months old. I had no happy baby memories of him as I just used to sit & blub the whole time. Now that he's nearly 6 I'm still riddled with guilt that I hated the time when he was a baby.

Hi Nicky

My DS, now 6 months old, had reflux (mostly silent) from a few weeks old - each bottle feed went something like this... first 60 or so mls went down fine, then he would fling his head back and scream, stretch out his body and tip his head back then beg for the bottle back only to scream as soon as he took another gulp. Nightmare!

I was at my wits end and the paediatrician recommended infant gaviscon as a start. I was reluctant to use that, partly because constipation is a side effect, but also because I was keen to avoid medication.

I was lucky enough to find a formula called Enfamil A.R. (anti reflux) at a local independent pharmacy. It saved my life!! The formula contains rice starch which thickens in the baby's stomach to keep it down. My DS loved it - his reflux symptoms disappeared immediately and he went from taking no more than 50-60mls a feed to about 150. I use Avent bottles and the thicker formula was fine with variflow teats. Boots don't keep Enfamil A.R. on the shelf, but they do carry it in their pharmacy if you order it. I was already bottle feeding so it was no drama for me to change formulas, but if you breastfeed I can imagine it might be a leap to think of switching to formula, but it may help.

We also used colief in his feeds - I think that's a great product which certainly helped with the bouts of prolonged crying.

There is a really helpful book by Alison Scott-Wright, called 'The Sensational Baby Sleep Plan' which has a chapter dedicated to silent reflux. I think you would find it useful. Alison has done a lot of work with babies with the condition - she has some practical advice.

I wish you all the best of luck - I know how trying it is.