How can I tell when it's colic and when it's reflux?

[nickytwotimes]

Hello all.
It's me and my endless questions about ds2 AGAIN.
He's 2 mths old, ebfed and diagnosed with GORD since 4 weeks. He ialso suffers from dreadful wind/lower bowel pain colicky stuff too.
He currently takes infant gaviscon and Ranitadine plus some colief for the wind. He is about to start Domperidon tomorrow.
He is still in a great deal of pain and discomfort a lot of the time and I have great difficulty telling if it is the reflux(sikent) or the wind so am find it difficult to assess how the meds are working out for him.
Any ideas? I just wnat to be able to help him in the most effective way...

I went with the theory that if DD was scrunching up it was wind whereas if she was arching back it was reflux.

Tried to keep her upright as much as possible (you know this I'm sure) as that seemed to help both.

I thought that the gaviscon made the wind side of things worse so if he's not actually throwing up then is there any way you could stop or cut down on the gaviscon?

The way I saw if was the gaviscon basically kept the milk down whilst the ranitadine neutralised the acid so if throwing up isn't the problem you can minimise the pain with just the ranitadine.

Someone on here who has lots of experience with reflux suggested dietary changes on another thread I saw. I think possibly it involved cutting out dairy from your diet. Cannot recall details, but it may be worth looking into that side of things, if only as a way of trying something that might help?

Thanks for such swift replies.

Hard to tell with ds as he tends to just flail around!
I know what you mean wrt Gaviscon - doesn't seem to do anything for him, but when we ditched it there was no difference either.

I have done the diet thing but to no avail sadly.

I am having a really shite day tbh.

I thought colic was a doctors way of saying "we don't know what it is"?

Reflux and wind go hand in hand.

Infant gaviscon makes some babies constipated

If you're starting on domperidone, you wont need the gaviscon.

FWIW, when we started on ranitidine and I cut out all dairy from my diet (I EBF), his wind pretty much disappeared. Now at 10 months, he cannot have dairy as makes him sick and very windy. Reflux can be triggered or made worse by cows milk protein.

We stopped the gaviscon as I could manage the vomiting by:

• using a dummy after a feed (put him in his bouncy chair for a bit) and when he was in the car
• no elasticated waists - he wore dungarees and romper suits until very recently. No trousers or shorts! This kept pressure off his tummy
• tummy time 30 mins after a feed at the least
• always winding after a feed as a lot of the time he'd vomit with a burp if I left it.

Have a think about getting a dummy - DS doesn't use it now as we never gave it to him for naps or sleeping.

x - post nicky sorry you're having a rubbish day. It is really hard

You need to cut dairy out for two weeks to see an effect. You also should avoid soya as can have the same effect.

You can also try manually extracting his bum wind - not sure if I've posted this link to you before here - it worked a treat for DS, especially at night.

That link is FAB!
Thanks Iggly - yy, I HATE the word 'colic'.
I've been off dairy for 4 weeks but sadly to no avail. Haven't cut soya though. Might give it a go too or perhaps instead as dairy hasn't made any odds.
Ds is not constipated - quite the opposite
Gaviscon is hopeless for ds so will ditch it.
Sadly, ds doesn't like his dummy. I can't tell you how disappointed I was by this as it was a godsend when ds1 was a baby and he was an easy kid!

Yes the link is great - we used to get loads of wind out that way although only at night - DS was ok in the day but that might have been because we'd do tummy time which made him fart!

DS didn't like a dummy either - took a few before he took to one. Even then he'd fuss and wouldn't always want it.

Have you cut out dairy from unlikely sources too eg ready made sauces? Although if that plus no soya doesn't work then only other thing I can think of is whether you have an oversupply of milk so DS gets a lot of foremilk which can cause gassiness. Again, I had this problem and had to block feed - so switch boobs less often. If you feed using both boobs, only use one. If you only use one side already th switch every other feed. What are his poos like?

Finally have you tried swaddling? We did that with some success up until 3/4 months. I think the pressure on the tummy can help make things feel better.

Anyway, it does get better with time. I found it tough but it seems so long ago now (although the memories are very fresh!!)

Yep, every trace of dairy.
I have a couple of vegan pals so they have been very helpful at finding my alternatives, though many of these contain soya.
Ds not keen on swaddling, thogh haven't tried it in a while so might try it again.
Did block feeding, yes, but no help.

God, it's a drag.

He'd better turn out to be something special, make it all worthwhile. Nobel prize winner at least.

I loved that link . Will be trying it tomorrow!

Well I'm all out of ideas! One of my friends went to a homeopath for help which worked. She recommended him to me but my DH was a bit sceptical so we didn't try it.

My doctor suggested we try neocate formula which has all traces of anything removed (but I didn't want to switch to formula). That's an option I guess? Also helen if your DS gets upset during feeds, can you try doing it when he's sleepy?

to everyone with this. At one point I was seriously close to cracking up and my DH had to take time off work to help me out as the reflux combined with very very little sleep nearly killed me.

nicky one last idea - have you tried no caffeine? Helen's post reminded me of that.

I know it's hellish at the time but we are exactly 1 year on from our lowest point and it's now quite a distant (if awful) memory.

So there is hope if you can just find ways of coping for the next few months. And however awful it seems at the time the babies won't remember any of it.

Have you tried cranial osteopathy? We had a few sessions and I think it helped with the wind if not the reflux.

Also, remember that the ranitadine dosage is based on weight so if your babies have put on weight you'll need to get a new prescription.

Hello all.
I am at another bery low point today.
Ds not settling at all, falling asleep for a few minutes then waking crying over and over.
DH taken him out in car as I have just lost it and ended up screaming and am crying. I am at a complete loss.

Oh, yes iggly, tried caffeine free too.
Again no joy.

nicky I've been there. I actually managed to put a hole in the wall.

Can you push for a referral to a paediatrician? What about getting some practical help in the day - someone to take DS for an hour or two while you rest or indulge yourself?

Also sorry to keep throwing ideas out but how is he sleeping in the day? Is he getting enough sleep? I found that DS was a lot worse when overtired (writhing, wind etc). He could only manage 45-60 mins of being awake at that age. I used to put him down for naps about 4-5 times a day.

Hi Iggly.
Yes, have seen paeds. They have been good.
It is a nightmare getting him to sleep at all, day or night. He is chronically sleep deprived. I can't get him to stay asleep - he will nod off quite easily most of the time but can;t stay asleep regardless of what I do. It is a shame because he really wants/needs to sleep but just can't poor sod.
I have got dh home for the summer hols. Another 2 weeks here in Scotland. Also Mum round the corner. SO I am luck in having lots of help.
I just can;t take any more of him being in pain today.

I know how it feels, it's awful. DS3 had very bad reflux as a baby and choked all the time and was in/out hospital at first as he stopped breathing from the choking. He was screaming and sick all the time he was awake and we got no sleep at all for days on end..could hear constant splashing from his stomach and his eyes would go red when it was the reflux we could hear it, he would arch and scream high pitched.

Losec and domperidone helped DS by about 50% (I was gutted as had read it could be a miracle cure) but the only thing that helped alot was time, movement (he loved his hammock) and when he was old enough to play/crawl/walk it would distract him.

The first 8-12 months were the hardest as he also had feeding aversions and was on 1st stage purrees till 13 months. We started to see big improvements at about 19 months and now he is nearly 21 months he is on normal foods and although he still has the reflux it is more like indegestion and the odd coughing than the full on vomitting and screaming!! He still is on meds but it looks like he may grow out of it in the near future. Hopefully that will give you some hope as I never thought DS would grow out of it.

I got a really good book called 'colic solved' from amazon. It's about reflux and covers everything, meds, diet, etc etc and was a lifesaver for me I recommend it to everyone.

nicky i'm not surprised - you need a break. Make the most of support!

nicky and helen I spent a lot of time making sure DS got naps in the day as he was a terrible sleeper - still not gone through the night yet without waking at 10 months! I basically gave up the idea of getting him to nap in his cot in the day and let him sleep on me. I killed two birds with one stone as he also feed much better when asleep so I'd rock him drowsy/to sleep in a dark room with fairly loud white noise, pop him on the boob and he'd have a good feed for 20 mins. Then put him on my chest and let him sleep, usually for another half hour. As his nights were so bad, this gave me a chance to lie back and doze.

I also realised that he needed a ridiculously early bedtime as we'd try and put him to bed at 8pm, he'd sleep for 45 mins then wake then not resettle until 10pm on a good night. So one day I put him to bed at 7pm (feeding at 6.15pm) and he didn't wake after 45 mins but a couple of hours. It gave us our evenings back - we kept experimenting, watching his tired signs and realised he needed to go to bed at 6-6.30pm. Even now at 10 months his natural pattern seems to be 6-6 (I can't get him to do 7 til 7!).

Unfortunately there's a sleep regression at around 4 months but I believe that if I had got DS into better habits and had his reflux treated earlier, it wouldn't have been so bad.

Now at 10 months, he takes naps in his cot (he's napping now), can self settle when in the right mood and I've taken him off his reflux meds. He was on ranitidine but it prevents proper absorption of iron and his hair started falling out at 9 months. Since I've stopped the ranti, it's fine again.

helen it got better around 5 months when he learnt to roll both ways. He started to sleep on his front at night - the first time he did, he slept from 7pm - 3am two nights in a row!!!! (I had to go and feed him at 3 as was about to burst). Clearly he prefers being on his front because of the reflux I think.

I know it's against the guidelines, but consider putting your little ones down on their fronts for naps where you can watch them and see if it works. You might have to position them so their bums are in the air and knees tucked under (as takes pressure off the tum). Alternatively put them on their left hand sides to sleep - we did this for DS from 3 months - as it is supposed to be more comfy for reflux babies. We got longer stretches at night as a result.

Jelly did you find your DS's reflux would flare up with certain foods? I've had to stop giving normal pasta (probably the wheat), he can't have acidic food, dairy and I suspect potatoes too! Nightmare as very difficult to cook for him and ready made stuff is a no (so struggle when going out!)

I do let him sleep on me, but even that doesn't work!
The car isn't working today either and it always works.
Radio fuzz has stopped working.
He has never seen the inside of his moses basket. I don;t even care about getting him down, I would be happy to just let him sleep on me or in the car seat, if he would only SLEEP.
He's had 5 hours in the past 24 hrs...

I really can;t take it any more today.
Dh has taken him out again int he car.
He is NEVER asleep before 11 pm at night - he screeches all evening and most of the day.