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Children's books

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Autumn Term at the Chalet School

999 replies

Vintagejazz · 25/09/2014 11:19

Just starting a new thread here as I can't spot a new one.

So my lambs feel free to keep spreading the hanes, but watch the slang!

OP posts:
Thebodynowchillingsothere · 04/11/2014 11:38

Oh yes the mad English! Grin

Yes I thinks matey is a character, doesn't her sister die during one of the books and they all start to call her Gwynneth for a while, doesn't last long though. There's also nurse in the background as ultra sensible and practical. I wonder if these characters would see themselves as people apart from the school community anyway as no one seems to have a life outside it.

Except those getting engaged to doctors and them settling on the platz.Grin

None of the young mistresses,for instance, go for a night out in the nearest town for a drink and club.

They are as excited as the girls about the sale, regatta, guide camp etc.

On the points made about the racist comments I think it's perfectly fine up understand that expressions like this were commen.

I just see EBD as a woman of her time and the books a great tool to show kids today how times have changed.

I have Mandy annuals from the early 70s and they are not much better. Very sexist and racist.

Thebodynowchillingsothere · 04/11/2014 11:43

Lonny my pet you are quite right. I sometimes smooth my frock down with my French fingers!

Oh and the scots having second site and an inexplicable ability to navigate without a compass.

Also Irish Biddy saying at all at all as an adult ,despite not setting foot in Ireland since childhood and living in Austria, England, Australia and Switzerland with posh people. Grin

Thebodynowchillingsothere · 04/11/2014 11:50

Just wondering how many years of therapy people like Bride Peggy,Melanie Lucas and carola Johnstone would need to get over their years of abandonment and parents who couldn't be arsed to visit them.

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 04/11/2014 12:01

It's true that Matey is slightly more developed than Frau Mieders or Mlle de Lachenais, but a lot of this is IMO offset by the fact that she is sometimes Matron Gould and NOT Matron Lloyd, sometimes the other way round, very often only one or the other seems to exist (she kind of seems to expand and contract in line with school/plot requirements, a bit like Freudesheim). The gesture about calling her Gwynneth for a bit after her sister dies ought to be touching but it grates on me cos it's Joey because actually some people do already call her Gwynneth before this! In fact Nell calls Gertrude Rider 'Gwynneth' at one point in Oberland, which I don't think is entirely unconnected to the magical Karen-is-always-there assumption - not awful, but somewhat revealing!

On the "two little n- boys" incident: the joke, in Joey recounting it, is that they accidentally look like black boys, isn't it? In a way that wouldn't be as funny if they were green, because nobody is green. I'd say a comparable version would be for example if they had covered themselves in something yellow (Joyce's sulphur cakes?) and Joey had described them as "two little Chinese boys!"
I do get that it's of its time, but I also think if I were a black child reading that I would probably feel gratuitously hurt. So if I were editing them for the modern child, I would probably think very seriously about taking it out, and I'm comparing that with Armada who took all kinds of bits out seemingly somewhat at random. If I were GGB, I don't know - harder to say. I do wish GGB would modify "working like a n-" with an explanation in their notes about it, and tbf although they otherwise 'don't modify' the text they do in fact correct "obvious errors" and standardise hyphenations etc and explain that in the notes.

Mostly though if I were editing I just wouldn't bother reprinting Joey Goes because it's crap. Grin

The bit where Joyce and co dress up as savages is different, IMO. I can't really justify why! I suppose partly because it's so critical to a major plot. I get that all of these issues are on a continuum and I wouldn't want to fully sanitise the books - it wouldn't work, anyway - but I suppose the n word is just so obvious that I'd personally chop that out. That said, I'd still hate my child to read it and think 'savages' was an alright word to use, or that the concept used here is acceptable... I don't know.

Who the bloody hell is Evan Evans if he's not Griffith Griffiths, look you? I'm off to look him up in the encyclopaedia now. Coming, Nell?

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 04/11/2014 12:04

Haha - 'The Chalet School Has Therapy' would be such a fruitful story!

i wonder how much freedom to go out and get pissed modern-day boarding school teachers really have, you know. I mean I'm sure they get a bit more than radio parties at Freudesheim, but I could imagine it still being a fairly odd life...

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 04/11/2014 12:12

Meant to add how sweet DeWee's DS is about the smoking!

OK, I've looked it up, look you, so I know you'll all be eager to hear: Evan Evans is the school's head gardener in the Armishire books. It's also the name of the postie, but this seems to be a different person.
Griffith Griffiths is the school's head gardener, who has come with them from Armishire to St Briavel's, in the St Briavel's books. (Yes, reread that if you like. I did, several times!) It's also the name of the Maynards' gardener in Goes To It, which is presumably the explanation.

I conclude that EE and GG are basically the same salt-of-the-earth Welshman, look you; and can't work out why the Lucys have a posh lady gardener while everyone else gets a proper common one. Maybe gardeners were as hard to come by as servants in those days...

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 04/11/2014 12:29

Also weren't the Lucys all skint for a good long while, look you?

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 04/11/2014 12:46

Were they? Is that in the CS or La Rochelle? I can only think of the Chesters being 'poor' and too proud to accept help for Beth's school fees... I like the Chesters, I have a suspicion they're among EBD's unfairly maligned!

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 04/11/2014 13:15

I may be getting them mixed up with the Chesters... but weren't the boys away at school when the CS started in Wales and the only school they could afford for the girls was one where the other girls had a very poor outlook on life? Or is that the Chesters? I must start a spreadsheet...

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 04/11/2014 13:52

Could just as well be true: I struggle a lot with keeping the Lucy-Chester-Ozanne stories straight, and a hundred times more when you bring in the other vaguer relations - the Willoughbys, Athertons, blah blah blah...

Lolsome moment in Changes:

"You've got to be up very early in the morning to catch Jo napping. Sure, wasn't she the bane of our lives when we were Middles and she was a perfect?"

"Where you and your beauties were concerned, it was often a case of staying awake all night, Bridget my love!" Jo retorted sweetly.

Before the young mistress could riposte, Miss Slater intervened. "I've no doubt you were both foes well met when it came to that. In the meantime, this isn't of much interest to any of us except perhaps Mlle, who, I'm sure, knew all about it. You stick to your story, Jo, and tell us exactly what is going to happen."

Touché! I do love Slater.

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 04/11/2014 14:42

And it seems Oirish is as catching as deft French fingers... "Well, 'tis glad I am 'tis no worse", says Peggy. At all, at all!

Thebodynowchillingsothere · 04/11/2014 15:14

The Chester's are the poor ones. The Ozannes and the Lucy's are rich I think.

Beth Chester had a difficult character that was in danger of being warped!!! I think by a school of Joan bakers so it was good that the CS opened. Of course saint Joey smoothed out any difficulty over jealousy Beth might have felt to the new Chester baby by er shoeing her the triplets.

Did anyone else find Janie Lucy spectaculaly boring? What was the whole J society joke that her a Joey enjoyed in CS in exile? Hmm

And who is Nan Blakeney?

Nell yes loving slater and the shut the fuck up about your bloody school days.. Or words to that effect.

Thebodynowchillingsothere · 04/11/2014 15:31

I think she approved of the Chester and Lucy girls but the Ozannes were portrayed as a bit shallow and lazy.

I thought I was pretty good on the CS but am now very confused at matron Gould/Ryder/Lloyd!!

Which is the Real Tyrol matey? Grin there are copied of joeys latest book for the best guess and I have spent my afternoons making lavender bags and cutting jigsaws for runners up.

RueDeWakening · 04/11/2014 15:34

Body, all of those mysteries are explained in the La Rochelle books Smile including how the Chesters lost their money - rogue solicitor made off with fortune, istr. Beth was the only one of the children old enough to notice, and they (as standard for the time) removed her from a good school (I think) and sent her to a crappish one. Her younger brother was kept at his school though, and the mother stuck her head firmly in the sand about the whole thing, hence the warping.

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 04/11/2014 15:39

Isn't Nan Blakeney Janie's 'adopted sister' in much the same way that Robin is Jo's? I read an excellent and v short fic which made a little romantic frisson between Evvy the lady gardener and Nan Blakeney, and so I'm a bit soft on her for that, which is a ridiculous reason but the CS is riddled with ridiculous reasons so it's also quite fitting.

I've not yet read the LR books - intend to once I've got through all the CS ones in order - but my vague understanding is that Anne Chester and Elizabeth Ozanne basically bring Janie up, similarly to how Madge does Jo? If that's so, I'm kind of underwhelmed by what a lovely jolly person Janie's supposed to be - one imagines she's had a rather more cosseted early life than her sisters...
But as I say, I've not read it. And I'm always, always biased in favour of the put-upon elder siblings. Grin

There are no fewer than three occasions of Biddy needling Slater in Changes. It reflects really poorly on Biddy, I think, even though I usually really like her. I am a total hypocrite about discord amongst the staff, though - I moan about the unrealistic happy-happy environment, but when they do have a bit of tension I don't like it unless I can pick a 'side'. Which is odd - irl and in other reading, I'm perfectly happy with grey areas, but one of my favourite things about the CS is suspending that kind of thinking. I don't like when Peggy and Rosalie (Rosalie!) are being off with Slater, because I like them all; so I can see why EBD who clearly loves almost all of her characters doesn't ever seem to want them to be at odds...

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 04/11/2014 15:43

Wasn't the younger brother kept at his school cos his godparent/s funded it, though?

Loving how CS (or LR) folk gone poor is usually someone else's fault! It's also true of the Bettanys right at the beginning of School at, isn't it - fortunes squandered by feckless guardians?

By the end, the 'real' Matey is definitely Lloyd. And she reminisces about Matron Gould, her former colleague. But in some of the earlier ones she is definitely Matron Gould. Matron Rider is the Matron at St Scholastika - she's an old friend of Mollie Maynard's in Rivals. Presumably she joins the Chalet school along with Julie Berné, Miss Soames etc in New but she does seem to disappear a bit until she goes to St Mildred's...

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 04/11/2014 15:44

Hmm, that's a lavender bag answer rather than a gaily-jacketed JMB signed first edition answer, isn't it. What a shame!

Thebodynowchillingsothere · 04/11/2014 15:52

OOAOML has French fingers like Joey, as does Barbara Chester. Strange.

RobinHumphries · 04/11/2014 16:08

Wasn't the other twin out of the Adventurous Four renamed Zoe? Jill and Mary might be a little old fashioned but at the same time they are names I consider "classic" and are timeless (like Elizabeth).

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 04/11/2014 16:29

Updating names just seems a really bizarre thing to fixate on. Like, fiddling with the details and ignoring the fact that the fundamental story is fixed in some other time. I can kind of see the argument for renaming Aunt Fanny, but seriously - whether children can or can't get into a story is supposed to hinge on whether the children have old-fashioned names or not? It's not even as though Zoe or Pippa address any major barriers either - recalling my own school exam papers which featured fictitious students called Ahmed or whatever - I can see why you'd do that for the sake of inclusivity. It's a really odd and cosmetic update - though I suppose it gets them mentioned in the press and raises publicity of the reprint?

ThereisnoFinWay · 04/11/2014 16:33

How can you say Mdlle de Lachenais isn't developed? She makes coffee! Nectar even. And shes a member of the French Alpinist Club. What more character development does anyone need?? Grin

EatingMyWords · 04/11/2014 16:48

Hasn't anyone ever written Joey's books? Or is that taking fanfic a step too far? Grin

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 04/11/2014 17:33

Nan Blakeney is indeed Janie's adopted sister. She is the heroine of Janie Steps In, the last LR book. She is a cousin of Rosamond Atherton and goes to stay with her after her mother is killed in a car crash and her father v badly hurt and sent off to Madeira for his health. Rosamond, however, doesn't think she's doing Nan any good because she (R) looks too much like Nan's mother and it's not healthy. So she sends Nan off to Guernsey to live with Janie instead because J. is so sane. Nan basically acts as an unpaid au pair but is allowed to name Janie's youngest son, so that's okay. Nan is of course straightened out by Janie and ends up marrying David Willoughby from Seven Scamps. I think the most annoying thing about the LR books is all the intermarrying.

marcopront · 04/11/2014 18:03

I saw this on Facebook and thought it was appropriate for readers of this thread.

Autumn Term at the Chalet School
hels71 · 04/11/2014 19:34

That is very true!

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