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Children's books

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Autumn Term at the Chalet School

999 replies

Vintagejazz · 25/09/2014 11:19

Just starting a new thread here as I can't spot a new one.

So my lambs feel free to keep spreading the hanes, but watch the slang!

OP posts:
EmilyAlice · 17/10/2014 13:43

I think doughnuts deep-fried in olive oil would be churros. According to my son these are the go-to food for the Spanish after a night on the piss so not natural EBD territory, perhaps. Actually I am not sure that she had even heard of Spain. Hmm

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 17/10/2014 14:12

Mmm, churros. I had no idea at all that they were done in olive oil! I am now in Wrong and Katherine's Aunt Luce has in fact gone to Spain so it's reasonably plausible that EBD was discovering Spanish hangovers at precisely this point in time. Grin

RosaliesGinBottle · 17/10/2014 15:18

:D

Rosalie is my favourite EBD character. Anyone who could successfully timetable that lot must be some kind of genius. Ginius perhaps. Cicely is awesome. I know someone like her: slightly too much of a force of nature to have a crush on, but one is vv happy to remain in their gravitational field and watch the world change.

I've also uploaded The Abbey Girls and Girls of the Abbey School. I keep all the EJO on my computer neatly categorised, hence the A1, A2, A3 for Abbey in order. There are other series, and they all interlock (and intermarry) so some books appear in up to three different series. (I don't have a lot of untrammelled computer time - I MN on my phone - so will upload when I can.) I really like the way central characters in the Abbey are recognised by the author and the other characters to be flawed, and the way characters have to make up their mind whether they love the character enough to put up with them! So a little less 'Just Joey' than EBD...

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 17/10/2014 20:21

Thank you! I'm getting v excited at nice orderly EJO access, though am still determinedly ploughing through the Chalets in order.

The first page of Shocks has already made me go Hmm - Rosalie 'remembers' Con Stewart teaching her history. Erm, no, she didn't, because Rosalie had left by then! Totally minor EBDism in the grand scheme of things, I think it's just the combination of it being on the very first page, and featuring Rosalie (much under-appreciated IMO) that made it niggle.

hels71 · 17/10/2014 21:36

The downside of reading in order is all the EBDisms stand out!!

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 18/10/2014 09:59

S'true!

The major major plus side is that I feel I have a much better idea now of each of the settings (so far). I can picture the school, grounds, and surrounding area really clearly.
Curious to see whether the Platz will be similarly improved by reading in order, as it's the one location I've never managed to have even a vague picture of.

Am on Shocks and every single book since Island has included a variation on "it's not cheek, it's just Mary-Lou". Now watching obsessively to see how long til a book (Oberland excluded) fails to include this comment...

hels71 · 18/10/2014 13:55

I suspect it might not be until after Theodora!

morningtoncrescent62 · 18/10/2014 17:19

Well, I'm in shock and trauma having reached the end of Wanted, An English Girl. Please, someone, read it - I'm desperate for discussion. I'd heard that during WW1 a common form of propaganda was stories of Germans bayoneting babies in occupied territory. Lo and behold, one turned up! What started as a ripping Ruritanian read turned into a horrific and gory tale of German atrocities, rounded off with a very dulce et decorum est pro patria morie ending. The title itself, 'Wanted, An English Girl' seems at first to be taken from the text of an advert for an English schoolgirl to go to the duchy of 'Insterberg' (very obviously Luxembourg) as companion to a German girl living there. But it turns out to have a double meaning, as 'English' turns into shorthand for 'courageous, selfless and in short a thoroughly good egg'.

I had a sobering moment. When the bayoneted baby appeared I thought, 'OK, this has gone much too far, and descended into farce. How on earth could people at the time have been so stupid as to be duped by this blatant propaganda?' Then I remembered what the Nazis actually had done, some 25+ years later. 'Nuff said.

So to tangentially bring it back to the Chalet School, the differences between this book, set in WW1, and EBD's books, set in WW2, are very stark. First, EBD is at pains to differentiate German from Nazi. Dorothea Moore, on the other hand, shows the Germans in every bad light - from the very start where our heroine bases her opinions of Germans on a 'piggish' German girl at school, right through to the horrors of war. The women are stupid and slow, or conniving. The men at best are drunken louts and womanisers, and at worst are vicious, murderous, vindictive rapists. There isn't a single German character portrayed positively - or even shown to have any redeeming features at all. Second, it's much more graphic than the CS books. Even in Exile we don't get the kinds of descriptions of atrocities that come thick and fast in Wanted - we get hints of bad things, but at much more of a distance. Third, there's a kind of war-weariness about the CS. I wouldn't call it pacifism or even anti-militarism by any means, but an acknowledgement that war is bad, and even though it's a necessary evil to defeat a greater evil, the aim is to live in peace. Whereas Wanted almost glories in the opportunities for Our Heroine to be heroic.

So is this a difference between two different eras, with attitudes to war changing as a result of the losses of WW1 and the social changes of the inter-war period? Or is it a difference of emphasis between two authors? I haven't read much other children's fiction written during either of the world wars, so it's difficult to know. Any other comparisons? It occurs to me that some of Noel Streatfeild's books were written during the war (Party Frock or whatever it's called, where there's a pageant) so maybe I should go and read them. Anything else? Oh goodie, a reason for reading early 20th-century kidlit.

TheObligatoryNotQuiteSoNewGirl · 18/10/2014 17:40

"For the School Colours", an Angela Brazil (available on Gutenburg) is set in WW1, and whilst there's a lot of "bad Germans", there's nothing graphic at all.

It's an odd read - half this-school-merges-with-that-school-and-creates-two-rival-parties-that-eventually-reconcille-for-the-sake-of-the-school-at-large, and half war spy thriller. They pretty much stay as two separate stories as well - one the school life of the main character (Avelyn - which I think is a gorgeous name, and if I can't find a suitable CS name for a hypothetical future DD, Avelyn will certainly make the list) and the other her home life.

The "baddie" is the uncle-by-marriage of one of the girls, a "naturalized German" who no one trusts, and turns out to be a spy, as well as wrongfully keeping the girl and her mother from their rightful ancestral home. No one trusts him, and then they turn out to be right.

DeWee · 18/10/2014 17:45

Noel Streatfield wrote "party frock", "The Children of Primrose Lane" and "When the Siren Wailed" during the war. If I remember rightly Party Frock mentions that there were attrocities by the Japanese (Selina's parents are prisoned there), the only mention of the Germans in WTSW is capturing a German pilot, who is young and really a bit dazed.
Children of Primrose Lane is children capturing a German Spy. Other than he loses his temper with them when they won't leave him alone at one point, he's fairly indistinguishable to a Englishman who isn't all he seems. Grin

hels71 · 18/10/2014 18:16

And Curtain Up is set during the war too. But i don't recall what mentions other than rationing etc there are. It's a lovely book though!

UniS · 18/10/2014 23:16

Curtain up is set late on in ww2. London has been bombed and bomb damage is described but families are bringing their children back and I don't recall any mention of air raids. Black outs are still in force, causing matinee shows to be more popular, troops are around to be entertained. Rationing is in force and all sorts of things are in short supply.
Its probably my favourite noel stetfeild book.

marcopront · 19/10/2014 04:27

Don't forget "When Hitler stole pink rabbit", which isn't a school story but is about being a child just before WW2.

IrenetheQuaint · 19/10/2014 16:01

Well, I've just read The Girls of the Hamlet Club, which was lovely - thanks Rosalie! Flowers Interesting to read a pre-WW1 school story, where characters are still driven around in a pony and trap. It's also a fascinating insight into the early days of the folk revival movement. Ironically, even though a major focus of the plot is the fact that most of the main characters live in villages and hamlets in Oxfordshire/Buckinghamshire, they are taught country dancing by our heroine who has learnt it at school in London. Plus ca change.

The first few Abbey books are great - fresh, well written, good characters, beautiful descriptions, fun plots. Then suddenly in about 1930 they take a dramatic turn for the worse and become really quite tedious, self-indulgent and repetitive. It has also always annoyed me that although the books were written from 1913 to 1959, neither WW1 or WW2 ever seems to get a mention.... they're set in a cosy never-never land. Odd.

OwlWearingSunglasses · 19/10/2014 17:12

Hi

Can someone let me know how I can get access to the transcripts please?
Would love to re-read some of these again!

thank you

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 19/10/2014 20:06

Will PM you in a moment Owl!

Reading the discussion about wartime books and their different ways of presenting (or totally ignoring) the war/s with great interest, but nothing to contribute.

Your collective advice please. My burgeoning collection (mixed hardbacks/GGBs) is probably standing at about half the ones I intend to get. (Just counted and I've got 14, but that includes two copies of New House and I need to sell one of those also two copies of Camp but I can't bring myself to sell either )
All of these I got for inside of £20. I've got some birthday money, and one eye on a hardback of Lintons, for £45. Do I, don't I? It's got all four B&W plates, which is a major attraction - I am really rather enjoying a lot of the Nina K Brisley illustrations. Eventually, GGB will presumably also print this one, but seeing as it's apparently barely cut in the Armada, and fairly easy to get hold of (if I wasn't interested in the illustrations, I could easily pick up the HB for close to a tenner), I don't imagine it's particularly high on their to-do list.
I kind of really want it - it's not my absolute favourite but it's still right up there, for me. But equally, for that price I could get GGB Jo of and Princess and Exile, which seems strategically more sensible.

ZivaMcGee · 19/10/2014 21:54

I've got the link to the transcripts from a few months ago but I was just wanting to see what there was there that was new to me and the password doesn't seem to be working. Could someone let me know what it is please?

RueDeWakening · 19/10/2014 22:48

Have sent it to you, Ziva.

EElisavetaofBelsornia · 20/10/2014 12:39

I have just begun Peggy, which I have an affection for as it was one I read a lot as a child. Eilunedd is a great villain, quite believable in her jealousy. I had the abridged version as a child and am entertained by the omissions - Jo has just moved to Cartref and will find it difficult in such a small house. It's then described as having eight bedrooms. And even though there is only Joey, Jack and boys at home, Anna and Rosa have to share Shock. Also, Jo has to give her sweets to children who help her with dropped potatoes, as she can't thank them in Welsh. She has lived in Wales for years now, and is supposed to be able to pick up conversational Norwegian and Belsornian in a few days. How hard would diolch yn fawr be? (Obviously quite hard, as EBD gets it wrong and writes diolch mawr).

DeWee · 20/10/2014 17:24

I rather like Peggy too. The accident at the beginning wher they get onto the wrong train is one of the few genuine accidents that EBD allows her alpha set to get into, unless it's with the point of Joey saving them. Perhaps it was a bit too predictable that there would be someone important who would rescue them, but still a good incident.

I totally agree about the lack of Welsh. EBD didn't even need to speak it. A simple "Joey thanked them in the pretty Welsh she'd picked up" would have been fine.

Eilunedd is great as a jealous villain. But I dislike the Joey and plucking feathers. It's a great analogy, if Eilunedd had already begun to regret it, she might have responded well. But I would have thought she'd have been so wrapped up in her jealousy that she wouldn't have thought Joey was doing anything other than standard moralising. And even if she had, her jealousy would have almost certainly said "Hmm, of course, she's the aunt. Obviously she'll take her side" and be even more resentful.

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 20/10/2014 17:56

I have a suspicion that Welsh might have been too working-class, to the point of inciting revolution, for EBD. I'm not sure of this, given Joey can offer to read fortunes in Romany, but...

EatingMyWords · 20/10/2014 20:51

I wondered about the Welsh. It can't be working class objections- surely Romany is more w/c than Welsh and Joey could speak that Grin TBF mawr is the same word as fawr just the wrong mutation.

About all I picked up from years in Wales was "Dwi ddim yn siarad cymraeg maen ddrwg gen ni." Though I had the excuse that everyone could speak English then which probably didn't apply in those days.

RueDeWakening · 20/10/2014 22:11

But speaking Welsh at all was frowned on, wasn't it? "the Welsh Not, or Welsh Note, a means of forcing Welsh children to speak English at school. A stick or plaque was given to any child heard speaking Welsh during school, to be handed on to whoever next spoke the language...At the end of lessons, the child left with the Welsh Not was punished."

The census in 1911 shows less than half (43.5%) of people over 3 in Wales were able to speak Welsh, and only 8.5% were monolingual. The stats only get worse until 1961 when it was only 26% of people in Wales able to speak Welsh.

So I'm not that surprised by there not being any Welsh in the books, especially since the hotbed of Welsh speakers was in the north of the country, and the CS was always based in the south I think.

hels71 · 21/10/2014 07:07

My gran grew up in south Wales in the 20s and 30s and did not know any Welsh at all.

EatingMyWords · 21/10/2014 08:42

I'd forgotten that -we lived in North Wales where everyone spoke it so I kind of took it for granted. West Wales has always had pockets of Welsh speaking so I suppose it depends where the island actually was. It wasn't a class thing whether you spoke it was it though so I can't see Joey being bothered. I met a woman at university who remembered the Welsh Not Sad