Autumn Term at the Chalet School

[Vintagejazz]

Just starting a new thread here as I can't spot a new one.

So my lambs feel free to keep spreading the hanes, but watch the slang!

But all the locals - Megan, Griffith, Mrs Parry The Shop, even Gwensi speak Welsh. And Jo has to give sweets because she can't thank them, so they're not even bilingual. Rue the Welsh Not thing was Victorian, wasn't it? My mum grew up in the 30s/40s, around when CS moves to the Borders, and only spoke Welsh until secondary school. And only then because she got a scholarship to a posh private school. Though I agree that Welsh was and still is much more used in the north, and the Island is set in the south - Carnbach is somewhere like Tenby, and St. Briavels Caldy?

Cross post - you met someone who remembered the Not . Wouldn't it be great if CS had introduced Welsh Wednesdays with the other languages, and had Cinio in the Ystafell Fwyta

I could be a good Chalet Girl with a surreptitious smart phone and Google Translate .

Welsh day would have been fab!!!

I was going to say exactly what Elisaveta said.
It is true even today that north Wales speaks much more than south. We used to holiday in North Wales and some of the younger children didn't speak English, and even the adults we stayed with their English could be uncertain at times. My Aunt was Cardiff though, and has been for 40 years plus now, and only has a few words, and those are more from road signs (like Araf being Slow etc).

I think the Welsh Not went as far as WWII in some areas though. I think they had it on WWII Coal House. Because I remember thinking it was a bit mean because I think only one of the families spoke Welsh as the first language, which did mean it was somewhat biased. Obviously that's not definitive history but I doubt they'd have got it as far out as from the Victorian times.

But it's always made how much Joey goes out of her way to learn, plus picks it up quickly. Think of how she learnt enough Russian to pick up that your evil cousin was calling you "Brats"-wonder why that word came up in her letter writing She would have gone into the shop and heard Welsh being spoken, if she'd wanted to I'm sure Gwensi would have been happy to teach her.
From holidaying in North Wales once a year my parents speak enough Welsh to say hello, goodbye, thank you and a smattering of other phrases. Because they felt it was polite to be able to, when they first went there and went into a shop they would say "how do you say thank you in Welsh?" and that is the minimum I would have expected Joey to do.

Her non-Welsh-speaking (apart from the endless 'hanes') is so pointed, though. It's not even essential for that scene - she could insist on giving them the sweets to thank them even if she was also able to thank them at great and fervent length.

If it's not about the naiceness, maybe it's EBD trying to demonstrate her great knowledge of Wales, and that Welsh-speaking is much less common in S Wales and therefore even Joey the polyglot hasn't picked any up? Although, as Elisaveta says, there are loads of Welsh-speaking local characters, so that argument doesn't stack up to much.

I have a separate question, from Shocks - how does Emerence go from being one of Mary-Lou's peers to being one of the triplets', as I'm sure she is in later books (Margot's best friend, by all accounts)? Is it due to the magical mystery of "Inter V", that weird form comprising stupid seniors, clever middles, and all other kinds of odd mixes which of course are best assigned to a brand new teacher?

Emerence is a slacker and doesn't want to work. She's about 2 years older than the trips isn't she? She leaves school quite a bit earlier than they do- Margot gets into trouble for accepting a fancy clock as a leaving present from her.

Oh yes meant to say Welsh day would be great- instead of Kaffee and kuchen it would be panad and bara brith.

I'd be saying dwi ddim yn gwybod a lot (if I've remembered it correctly!).

Agree with the Emerence thing as they are middles together in shocks And ML is the head girl telling her off about the clock incident although it is explained by the age difference

but there's still Jo Scott who is in the gang And then later told off by ML for something in prep.

I honestly think the welsh thing is EDB being a snob. Remember the highland twins were seen as too highland and needed to speak better English like the Irishisms of Biddy.

Rosalie had a sister in the first book. She disappears to be replaced by 2 half brothers in reunion.

Remember all working class people like black strong tea and many are called Thirlbeck.

There's the shop owners in Gay and the helpful Sargent in Highland

D'you know, I really wanted to be like teenage Joey when I was little - as a result I can at least say please, thank you, hello and goodbye in no less than... um eight languages I think - English (obvs), French, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Esperanto and...Welsh, thanks to a Welsh university friend :o

Yacky Dar! (can't spell it mind :o )

Properly snorted at "and many are called Thirlbeck".

Oh Rue why couldn't your multilingual inspiration have been someone properly cool, like Miss Denny, rather than bloody Joey?

Are Len or Con ever naughty Middles? Obviously I could wait and find this out myself, but currently reading ML in detention, smuggling scissors in for gardening etc, has made me wonder. I can't imagine it, but I've got big gaps in my Swiss reading...

Also Rosalie is Mary's cousin originally and seems quite close to her (is I think only a year or so older than her) but this seems to disappear from view in the later books - like in Reunion, I wouldn't exactly expect Rosalie to be travelling to the baby's (babies'?) christening like Peggy does, but I'm surprised this aunthood isn't even commented on by Joey, or something.

Actually I am now wondering how Rosa is sharing one of the many bedrooms of Cartref with Anna, when she went to Canada with Madge at the start of Island.

Do you think it's a mistake and ought to say Rosli? Joey has Anna and Rosli, Madge has Marie and Rosa - no? Or am I mixing my domestic peasants from different eras?

Rosli does not appear until Switzerland.

It says Rosa is Anna's cousin, if that helps. I think Rosli is the Coadjutor, who comes later?

The thing that really confused me about the Welsh thing is that I thought Armishire is supposed to be Herefordshire - which isn't even in Wales! Or have I got that wrong?

My Grandma (who I've mentioned in previous CS threads) grew up in South Wales not long before the CS would have moved there, and she and her sisters never learned Welsh, because nice young ladies didn't. One of them later married a doctor who looked after a largely Welsh-speaking population and had to learn it later in life - all their children, my dad's cousins, are bilingual.

Alright, I'll stop trying to find explanations for ridiculous EBDisms then! But am pleased for Anna that she's not really sharing a room after all.

Sock I think EBD uses 'Wales' and 'England' fairly interchangeably, but it's quite possible the error is in my memory rather than in her writing...

I think it says somewhere that Plas Howell is in the Welsh borders. The name sounds Welsh. As do some of the other house names.

Isn't Plas Howell just over the border, but Armishire is the nearest large town?

I am enjoying the period detail in the unabridged books. I now know what Paris buns, gache and junket are (all sound lovely) - as well as chilblains (which don't). Do people still get chilblains? Is central heating a factor?

Just got to a bit in Carola where Miss Annersley says "Right, I'm off to bed. Coming, Nell?"

Armiford is the town, Armishire is the county, supposedly. But a little geographical flexibility doesn't seem like it would be unheard of for EBD.

Of course it's Armiford. How everyone will scream at that howler!

Long time lurker here who thought of you all this morning when I read an article in The Times about a woman coming out of a coma after her DC insisted on playing her favourite song to her. It was a pop song rather than Red Sarafan& no mention was made of it being sung in bell like tones but it does happen.
As for chilblains, yes I get them every winter as I got to bed with my feet on a hot water bottle & may wear bed socks too.

Ah chillblanes? Are they on the end of your nose like bride in tom?

as a trained nurse have S much idea of what is medically possible here as double shock

off to bed coming Nell
As to the devoted Tyrol servants.

Anna is a cousin if Marie and Eigen the strong who carried the cases. They are children of Frau pfeffjn (or like) who tends to the summer Home in the Tyrol.
Rosa is another cousin.
Rosli is a kid they take on In Joey goes to The oberland and no relation.