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MNers without children

This board is primarily for MNers without children - others are welcome to post but please be respectful

dudsville · 30/06/2024 14:12

I was only able to get through a part of the article before it asked me for me email address, so I stopoed reading at that point, but I wanted to say I felt it helpful hearing someone say it wasn't linear. For me, growing up I didn't want them, not strongly so, but like the author I just went about my life not thinking at all about babies. Also like the author my then husband was really keen. I'm sorry to say i would have gone through with it, but he was a jerk, and I didn't like his family and I really didn't want to have children with him, so I left. Also like Bell I then had a surge of hormones in my late 30s, and it was overwhelming and confusing, and unfortunately I did start trying then. I wish instead i could have been more reflective. But instead I had a series of miscarriages, and thankfully, as awful as that was, they really made me stop and think - I didn't want just any child, it wasn't about being a mother. I was seeking a fantasy, driven by hormones, and I realised the potential regret I could have with having a child was too great (and likely) a risk. But yes, it wasn't a linear journey, I'd like to read what else Bell had to say if you can copy and post?

JenniferBooth · 30/06/2024 17:00

Sorry @dudsville i have the print edition. I googled and posted here hoping someone has a Readly account so that others could see it. My child free decision was a lot more certain at an earlier age, Im sorry you went through those miscarriages. Flowersl I went through a short stage at 17 when i REALLY wanted a baby. Thankfully i didnt act on it. And ive never felt that way again. Im 51 now.

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dudsville · 30/06/2024 17:32

That sounds much more straight forward @JenniferBooth, but I don't regret my process, I am grateful for those awful miscarriages. They literally made me stop and think.

KimberleyClark · 30/06/2024 17:50

Here is the text of the article

What it means to be child-freeRed
01 Aug 2024
For author Poorna Bell, the decision not to have children has not always been linear. Here, she shares how she learned to tune out societal expectations, and follow her true desire and purpose in life instead

CHILD-FREE Author Poorna Bell on choosing not to be a mother

In my 20s, I always assumed I would have children. Retrospectively, this wasn’t borne out of a great urge to be a mother, but part of the ‘this is just what everyone does’, which included getting married, owning a house and a car, and attending dinner parties, ad infinitum.

When I met my husband Rob in 2009, while we both agreed we wanted kids, I couldn’t shake the feeling that his desire to be a parent was much deeper and more genuine than mine. I felt something lacking but couldn’t articulate it. After all, when you are told your whole life that a woman’s purpose is defined by having children, it takes something worldshattering to pull you outside of that way of thinking. And that is what happened. Rob died unexpectedly and tragically in 2015 when he was 39.

Now, at the age of 43, having processed a lot of grief and finally living a life that is filled with love and joy, I know that children are not something that I want, if ever I truly did. However, while it has been my choice, I still marvel at how binary the discussion is around choosing not to have children, and the assumptions that are made. Here are six things I’ve learned from my choice and how people perceive it:

The path is rarely straightforward

I’ve never categorically known that I didn’t want children – there have been ebbs and flows. Around three years after Rob died, I was 37 and at a point biologically where I needed to start thinking about making a decision about children. Around this time, I also experienced a huge hormone rush that felt like maternal instinct and made me strongly consider it. Friends of mine were freezing their eggs and one had already had a baby via a donor. A work peer had also adopted solo – all of which road-mapped options.

While it would be hard, I had no qualms about raising a baby solo, especially because I had no desire to find a partner. But, somewhere along the way, the hormones dissipated and I forgot about it, until my sister asked me how it was all going, and had I thought any more about adoption? I’m no expert, but I’m sure that if you want children, you don’t forget about them as if they are a jumper lost in the back of the cupboard. When I turned 40, a certainty around not having children crystallised and I knew in my bones it was the right choice.

You’re making the best possible choice not just for yourself

People who choose not to have children tend to get questioned about it far more than someone who chose to become a parent is asked about their reasons. I’ve always wondered about that, given how many adults I know who have been deeply affected by dysfunctional or absent parents, whereas the impact of someone choosing not to have children is minimal. I’m sure many people assume that I didn’t have children because my husband died, but the main reason is because I don’t have a desire to be a mother. When I think about an alternate reality in which I may have brought children into the world because I unquestioningly thought it was my purpose to do so, it fills me with horror. I don’t think I would have been the mother

they deserved, and all I can picture is a life filled with resentment, which would have poisoned their root system, as I have seen in the case of so many others.

I will always mourn the ‘what if’

When people are trying to convince you to have children, they have two weapons in their arsenal. The ‘What if you regret not having them?’ and ‘It’s the greatest love you’ll ever know’. Both of these would be unimaginably cruel if said to people who want children but cannot have them, and even if someone has chosen to not have children, there is still likely an element of grief woven into that decision. There is a part of me that wonders what kind of mother I would have been, and mourns that I will never know. When I see the bond that flows between my sister and my niece, and my friends and their children, and the delight they have in the other’s existence, there is a part of me that longs for that. But the feeling doesn’t last long, nor is it stronger than the reasons I’ve chosen not to have children. And grief for yourself can also exist if you’re a parent, mourning a version of the person you used to be.

Just because I’m not a parent, it doesn’t mean I lack a sense of purpose

There’s an unhelpful trend on Tiktok where child-free people boast about how amazing their lives are without children – from their disposable income to their amazing sleep, which only goes to support some of the assumptions people make about us. I understand why those videos exist, as a retort to the belief that if you don’t have children, you somehow lack joy or fulfilment, but they perpetuate a stereotype that being child-free means you don’t have responsibilities, commitments or purpose. With my sister living abroad, I am the first point of care for my parents, who are in their mid-to-late 70s, and I also have a commitment to regularly visit my mother-in-law in New Zealand, especially since my father-in-law passed away. I don’t just have one job but several, which range from writing books and public speaking to scriptwriting, and I’m solely responsible financially for keeping my business and home afloat.

We have to recognise the sexism around children being yoked to fulfilment for women in a way it is not for men. There are things that will be easier for me because I don’t have children, such as being able to go to the gym or travel whenever I want, but that doesn’t mean my life is easy, because often I have work commitments that require a vast amount of my time. The parent friends I have the strongest relationships with are the ones who can recognise our lives are different but still respect the choices I’ve made, without making me feel as if they are inferior to theirs.

There are no guarantees in life, even if you have kids

‘Who will look after you when you are old?’ is one of the most common pressure points people engage when convincing you to have children. Never mind that children shouldn’t be a retirement plan – having witnessed how hard and awful it has been for some people taking care of their elderly parents – it’s also assuming that your children will be able to. As someone who is part of the 12-step programme, I’ve heard countless stories of parents who are dealing with the chaos of adult children who are addicts and, more broadly, know people who have had to put their parents into a home because the physical and mental care required is too much. If there is anything that I have learned from losing Rob, it is that the safety of a heteronormative life is an illusion that can be snatched away from you at any moment. Increasingly, I’m hearing about women who are making plans to grow old together with their platonic friends and that, to me, seems to be a more fulfilling and nourishing way to see out the end of your days, versus saddling your children with an overwhelming responsibility and feeling like a burden.

I’m not a mother, but I am still helping to raise an incredible human

Another assumption people make is that if you choose not to have children, that means you don’t like them. While I may not be the person to coo at a random baby on a bus, I think children can be incredible – from their freshness of thought to the hilarity of how they see the world. More specifically, I feel like this about my 10-year-old niece, Leela.

There is a phrase I heard on Tiktok called ‘mum-tie’, which describes the kind of aunt who takes an active interest in raising her ‘niblings’ [a gender-neutral term for niece or nephew] and that’s how I view myself.

I held her the day she was born, feeling a type of love I’d never experienced before. As I have watched her grow, I’ve shared my life with her, and want to teach and protect her.

Although my sister lives in Spain, I work in a way to spend time with Leela. When she comes over to England, she visits my flat and we read books together or go for walks in my favourite park. This summer, I’ve booked her first-ever weightlifting session with my coach. I want her to know about my world as much as I want to know about hers, and I feel bound to her in a way that feels woven and solid.

A couple of months ago, while I was visiting her in Barcelona, we were lying on a stone bench in the park. I had my head in her lap, half-dozing in the sunshine, while she played with a packet of new stickers I’d just bought her. The wind ruffled the trees overhead and the sound of traffic hummed in the distance, when she said in the softest, sweetest voice, unprompted: ‘Auntie Poo, I love you.’ The weight of that love made my heart snap – I almost couldn’t contain it. And I think, if this is what being a parent is, to have a part of your heart living in another human being who needs your care and love, then maybe I know something about it after all, and maybe I haven’t missed out.

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JenniferBooth · 30/06/2024 17:56

Thanks @KimberleyClark

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Garlicker · 30/06/2024 21:11

My story's very similar to yours, @dudsville.
I really agree with Bell about the sexism around children being yoked to fulfilment for women in a way it is not for men.

dudsville · 01/07/2024 00:23

Thank you @KimberleyClark , it was good to read the whole article. And it's an interesting point, isn't it@Garlicker, my father says from time to time that I would have been a great mother. Part of me doesn't doubt that, but it's like anything else I may have been reasonably good at, if I don't really want it, is it still valuable. The fantasy that I realised with my miscarriages in my late 30s, was that of a different life, one where in my 20s I'd met a good man, raised a family and been woven into an idealised scenario, one that I wasn't terribly excited to have but would have been perfectly ok. That would have been a fine life. But it wasn't what happened, and I love my life. I'm fulfilled and content... minus my elderly dog doing a bout of nighttime restlessness that has me up and reading mn instead of sleeping!

Yazzi · 01/07/2024 00:45

She sounds like such a lovely, caring and intentional person. What a wonderful role model for her niece.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 01/07/2024 09:20

Very good article and was nodding in agreement to a lot of it, but with one reservation that might be personal to me - the need to emphasise what an adoring auntie she is so people can be reassured that just because she's CF doesn't mean she hates children. I see this a lot - childfree people thinking they have to make the point about how much they adore their nieces and nephews even tho they don't have children of their own - plus the last bit implying that she's as good as a parent because she feels the love that parents feel.

So ended up feeling slightly ambivalent if she's as happy to be CF as she makes out.

KimberleyClark · 01/07/2024 10:32

So many people do equate childfree with child hater though.

JenniferBooth · 01/07/2024 15:08

"what it means to be child free" could also include being expected to work every Christmas, being expected to live in a tiny flat indefinately people assuming you dont want responsibility.

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LoobyDoop2 · 01/07/2024 17:40

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 01/07/2024 09:20

Very good article and was nodding in agreement to a lot of it, but with one reservation that might be personal to me - the need to emphasise what an adoring auntie she is so people can be reassured that just because she's CF doesn't mean she hates children. I see this a lot - childfree people thinking they have to make the point about how much they adore their nieces and nephews even tho they don't have children of their own - plus the last bit implying that she's as good as a parent because she feels the love that parents feel.

So ended up feeling slightly ambivalent if she's as happy to be CF as she makes out.

I’ll quite happily admit, I’m not that keen on them. I like my one nephew, but the vast majority of my friends’ children are really quite irritating and mostly serve to get in the way of doing fun and interesting things.

JenniferBooth · 01/07/2024 17:58

LoobyDoop2 · 01/07/2024 17:40

I’ll quite happily admit, I’m not that keen on them. I like my one nephew, but the vast majority of my friends’ children are really quite irritating and mostly serve to get in the way of doing fun and interesting things.

I have two great nephews i havent actually met. Im happy to buy them birthday and Christmas presents but i dont want to go to child orientated events. Not until they are a bit older. The youngest is four this year and the eldest is just school age

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MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 01/07/2024 19:31

No I'm not fond of them either.

I hope I'm just being uncharitable to the writer and have misinterpreted, but that passage about her niece and the love she felt came over a lot as "see! I'm as good as a parent! I get this 'greatest love you'll ever know!' thing, I'm as near being a parent as I can be!"

LoobyDoop2 · 02/07/2024 07:51

It’s very much going along with the idea that not being hugely maternal is an unpleasant personality flaw in a woman, and I don’t agree with that. There are lots of different ways you can be kind and compassionate, they aren’t of less value than being interested in children.

Brie2001 · 02/07/2024 08:14

"When I see the bond that flows between my sister and my niece, and my friends and their children, and the delight they have in the other’s existence, there is a part of me that longs for that."

And when I see the distain and derision that flows from my parents and indifference shown in my existence, there is the whole of me that rejects that.

burnoutbabe · 02/07/2024 08:27

I think, In print, would I ever publicly say "nah my nephew bores me"

I doubt many would even if we thought it. As it would hurt our relatives. So we'd say we loved them. Even if privately we thought differently.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 02/07/2024 09:32

Yeah, I have to say that I agree with others - the end felt a bit like how in pretty much every TV drama about a woman who can't have kids, she miraculously manages to have one at the end and lives happily ever after.

Like she thought she was happy being childfree, but then she heard a child say "I love you" and then, she knew better.

JudgeBurrito · 03/07/2024 12:02

burnoutbabe · 02/07/2024 08:27

I think, In print, would I ever publicly say "nah my nephew bores me"

I doubt many would even if we thought it. As it would hurt our relatives. So we'd say we loved them. Even if privately we thought differently.

But she didn't have to mention him at all? I agree with the others who think it was a good article but a bit of a letdown at the end

ABirdsEyeView · 03/07/2024 13:02

I do have children but read this article and thought it was interesting - I took the end bit to just mean that choosing not to have children doesn't mean missing out on anything in life, that in her case her niece can give her all the good bits (since that relationship is something she values) but without all the crap bits. That the relationships she has within her family are just as meaningful as the parent one. And that not having kids through choice,doesn't mean you hate them!

I think society 'gets' it when people who don't really like kids, choose not to have them, but is a bit perplexed when people (women) who do quite like kids and are fond of their families/friends dc choose not to. So I think she was trying to explain that to women to did want children.

JudgeBurrito · 03/07/2024 13:09

Oh good, a parent is here to explain...

choosing not to have children doesn't mean missing out on anything in life, that in her case her niece can give her all the good bits (since that relationship is something she values) but without all the crap bits.

For lots of us, choosing not to have our own children doesn't mean missing out on anything in life, with or without relationships with other children.

That the relationships she has within her family are just as meaningful as the parent one.

Yeah... duh? Does that really need to be spelled out though?

I think society 'gets' it when people who don't really like kids, choose not to have them

I disagree. I think there is still a sort of societal shock that any woman wouldn't like kids. There's generally a suspicion that you have an ulterior motive (jealousy of parents, hiding the fact you would like kids but can't have them, selfishness, etc)

ABirdsEyeView · 03/07/2024 13:22

@JudgeBurrito tbf, that article was aimed at parents, since women who choose not to have kids already know everything she's saying.

I did also say that the relationship she has with her niece is something she values and makes her feel she isn't missing out on anything, not that child free women generally are missing anything if they don't have/value those relationships.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 03/07/2024 13:22

I think society 'gets' it when people who don't really like kids, choose not to have them, but is a bit perplexed when people (women) who do quite like kids and are fond of their families/friends dc choose not to. So I think she was trying to explain that to women to did want children.

I think it might be the other way around, actually.

The default expectation and conditioning of women is that they like children. Women who express that they do not like children are met with suspicion at best and outrage at worst (I've seen childfree women who don't like kids described as akin to racists, and as being reddit-dwelling incels disguised as women, on a number of MN threads). The exception, of course, is mums - mums can say they dislike all kids except their own, which is fine, because they've had some.

Women who love kids but have chosen not to have their own conform to the default expectation. They may still be questioned about it, and they may get the "but you'd be such a good mother!" variant, rather than the, "it's different when it's your own!" that women who dislike kids get, but they do get the benefit of societal validation of their conformity.

It's why so many women who don't like children and don't have them for that reason lie about it. Because people still don't see that as an adequate reason not to have kids, and they judge the shit out of you to boot.

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 03/07/2024 13:39

Quite refreshing to read a more nuanced account of being childfree.

I particularly identified with the late 30s urge that passes. Most of the time I am pretty glad my panicked broodiness didn't result in pregnancy but it made me feel a bit of a failure and a bit isolated from both the child free and childless community.

ABirdsEyeView · 03/07/2024 13:41

I'm sorry that happens to you.
I was interested in this article because my sister is child free by choice, so when I was reading I was kind of picturing her. I've never really talked to her about whether other people are judgy about it.

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