The difference between childfree & childless

[CarsClueless]

Does anyone else feel this way?

It's hard to explain, but I feel like for parents, it's okay for someone to be childfree as long as they're a bit regretful or sad about it.

God help you if you're very happy with your choice! You must hate children!

I'm childfree by choice but also medically. I went through a very brief phase of thinking I did want a baby which only confirmed I didn't (huge relief when I found I couldn't have kids without medical help).

So sometimes I say 'I can't have kids' (poor you, you'd have been a lovely mum, maybe you can adopt mine, hahaha, let's do coffee)

Or I say 'I never wanted kids' (oh! Fair enough. Each to their own, I wouldn't be without mine, little loves! Nice to meet you, bye)

There's such a difference in reaction!

You're 'allowed' into the fold if you wanted kids, but definitely not if you didn't.

If people react like that then it tells me something about them - that they're pretty narrow minded - so I wouldn't want to hang out with them. Not all parents react like that, in my experience, but I guess some do.

Yes I get what you are saying. I think it's because its still considered by many the norm to have children and so people understand it more easily if the reason you don't have them is because you can't.

Some people really struggle with the idea that you've chosen something from them.

It's weird because you don't get that reaction from anything else - it's so specific to having/not having kids.

You're 'allowed' to have different opinions, political views, hobbies, interests, jobs, sexual orientation etc, but you're a fecking weirdo if you chose not to have a family.

Last year a male colleague asked me how many kids I had, I said none, and he actually said 'why, what's wrong with you?'

Imagine saying that to a parent!

I think it's saying something about them for sure, but also reflective of a society's view, as a whole.

Hmm.
I have kids so difficult to comment on how it must feel. But, I think it must be getting easier and easier for women to choose child free. Women are making this choice in great and greater numbers all over the world. Its a valid path to choose now so that's good.

It's not that the actual decision is easier; if someome doesn't want kids, they can't force ourselves to want them. The decision can be the easy bit. (Not always, and not for everyone).

It's other people's (usually parents) judgement of that choice that needs to change.

I often feel that not being able to have kids and being OK with it isn’t really acceptable to some parents either. It’s like you’re meant to be sad and regretful for the rest of your life! I’m actually quite glad that I’m able to enjoy my retirement to the full without feeling guilty about spending the kids’ inheritance!

Isn't it similar to people who say they have a dog and then you say "gosh I hate dogs and glad I have never had one"

Doesn't really make for great friendships.

Now 🐈‍⬛ -i don't think I'd care of anyone disliked cats (I love them) unless we were going to live together with a cat.

Oh yes - and if you do mention that you tried for kids at some point, you're usually given unsolicited 'advice' with an anecdote of IVF success, or a very helpful 'you could always adopt if you change your mind!'

You're assuming people don't have kids because they don't like them?

I don't have kids not because I don't like them (I like kids) but I don't want one of my own.

It's a difficult one to unpick. I think parents on the whole haven't actually considered that they may have had a choice. It's just what people do. They don't comprehend that some people may have chosen not to do the same and so it's the default for them to other you. If you can't - pity is the default. There is something wrong with you physically. If you don't want to - confusion. There must be something wrong with you mentally. I've never told anyone who isn't close to me my reasons as they are not straightforward (is it ever?), I just say "no" when they ask. The usual reaction is to tell me that I am lucky, that I can have one of theirs or just rattle on about their offspring as if I haven't said anything. It shows a complete lack of sensitivity and empathy imo.

@CarsClueless
"he actually said 'why, what's wrong with you?'
Imagine saying that to a parent!"

People do, all the time! Only have one child - why, what's wrong with you? They'll be bored/lonely. Have more than 4 children - why, what's wrong with you? Don't you have a TV?

People are judgemental twats and those who would make comments such as that to you for not having children, would absolutely make just as awful ones to parents!

I'm a parent, I don't care if people have got kids or not. If someone mentions they've had fertility troubles then I'll sympathise, other than that I don't ask because I really don't care.

I don't like kids apart from my own. I can't stand other people's kids, they're noisy, undisciplined and get in my way. Yes, I'm also an anti-social miserable fucker in RL too. 😂

@CarsClueless I find men are the worst for this, especially if they want children themselves. I suppose women can have a baby without keeping the man around, but for men every woman who wants to stay childfree lessens their chances.
If you're childless people feel sympathy because you didn't get what you hoped for, if you're childfree you're obviously selfish or immature.

I have limited experience of people questioning my decision (must be my RBF or I know a lot of open minded people who respect other's decisions about their lives) but the worst by far was a male colleague. He took me being childfree and utterly content with that decision as a personal insult, and he'd stand at my desk and harangue me about it. Literally ranting that I was selfish, I'd die alone....I got a bit terse in the end about telling him to zip it.

Given that I was several years over 50 at the time I'm not sure what he thought I could do about it even if I did change my mind.

With male colleagues I often think well I wouldn't mind being a dad in theory. Off to work all day, off in my usual business trips /work drinks etc.

Like when they said "lockdown wasn't too bad, nice having the kids at home" -when they both had wives who didn't work and therefore were in charge of the kids!

So maybe I just don't want to be "a mum". But a dad may be okay. Course that would offend people too.

Come on @MrsDanversGlidesAgain , he thought you should go to one of those dodgy IVF clinics abroad where 50 is a youngster! Looking back the few men who've taken me to task have all been single as well as childless, maybe they're bitter because women won't give them what they want, after all, us girlies should know our place 😂

He had a daughter (about 8 at the time IIRC) and I felt desperately sorry for her because should she decide she didn't want kids, DF was going to make her life merry hell. On reflection it was much more likely that she'd follow the path laid out for her without even thinking about it.

The usual reaction is to tell me that I am lucky, that I can have one of theirs or just rattle on about their offspring as if I haven't said anything. It shows a complete lack of sensitivity and empathy imo.

This is my experience too. I'm actually both childless and childfree but I just say "no" unless the person won't let it go. But usually they just do the above.

This isn't my experience as a child free by choice woman. I have friends who are parents and friends who aren't and feel I'm treated the same by all.

If anyone treated me differently because of it then I'd see that as a handy way of telling that they're somebody I wouldn't bother with....it's never happened though.

@Churchview I don't know how old you are but I do find it's happened more to older women. Young people do seem to accept it a lot more now, but when I was young it was more of an issue especially in your 20/30 years. If I had a tenner for every time someone said you'll change your mind when you're older, well, I'd go and have a grand day out with a Mitchelin starred dinner

I'm 60 @Daleksatemyshed . I remember that people did say, 'You'll change your mind when you're older.' years ago....but I didn't think they were judging me, just imposing their own perceptions on me.

Never did change my mind - so fuck 'em anyway.

Quite right @Churchview , I find your real friends don't care , parents or not, it's the casual friends and strangers who have too much to say. One of the glories of being older is not giving a fuck anymore

I think a big element of that is many women totally collapsing themselves into motherhood, then grandmotherhood, and finding it really hard to relate to anyone who’s not a parent - ie what do you talk about, if not kids?

A childless person is one to pity because they’re deprived of that all-consuming experience.

Childfree are a threat to that worldview.