The difference between childfree & childless

[CarsClueless]

Does anyone else feel this way?

It's hard to explain, but I feel like for parents, it's okay for someone to be childfree as long as they're a bit regretful or sad about it.

God help you if you're very happy with your choice! You must hate children!

I'm childfree by choice but also medically. I went through a very brief phase of thinking I did want a baby which only confirmed I didn't (huge relief when I found I couldn't have kids without medical help).

So sometimes I say 'I can't have kids' (poor you, you'd have been a lovely mum, maybe you can adopt mine, hahaha, let's do coffee)

Or I say 'I never wanted kids' (oh! Fair enough. Each to their own, I wouldn't be without mine, little loves! Nice to meet you, bye)

There's such a difference in reaction!

You're 'allowed' into the fold if you wanted kids, but definitely not if you didn't.

I think a big element of that is many women totally collapsing themselves into motherhood, then grandmotherhood, and finding it really hard to relate to anyone who’s not a parent - ie what do you talk about, if not kids?

Having children and talking about them is a conversational failsafe in the same way that the weather is. Everyone's got some nice safe anecdotes and opinions to swap. When someone like me says 'I don't have children' what the HELL do you talk to me about for the time you're engaging with me?

It's like I've failed at some sort of social exam. "Oh God, I've actually got to TALK to you and find out about you instead of making assumptions based on your reproductive status."

When I chose not to have children I didn't give grandchildren a thought. I'm at an age now where many of my friends have grand children and have a huge commitment in terms of time spent on their care.

I had no idea that not having grandchildren would be such a freedom and a pleasure.

I think it's just as simple as the fact that a statement like "I never wanted kids" is a 'distancing' statement to a parent, ie implies that this is something you and your conversation partner definitely don't have in common. Saying "I can't have kids" is a vulnerable self- disclosure which invites closeness and warmth in response. It can be hard to move on from a distancing statement (even a minor one like this) if you don't have the best social skills

Yeah if I could be a dad I think I’d be more up for having kids. I agree it wouldn’t go down well with many men!

I don’t think it’s as fail safe as it might seem to some, with 1/5-1/4 people in the UK getting to 45 without children, mostly not voluntarily. I’ve got a toddler and it amazes me how my colleagues jump into kids conversation right away when they engage with me now socially, and stay there, even when we’re in the company of people without children who have nothing to contribute and no interest. And some probably find it very hard, which I understand having had long term fertility issues. They are lovely people but it’s like a blind spot.

Weather, travel, pets, hobbies, films, commute, place you are at etc etc - loads of safe topics, it only takes a little bit of empathy to consider these.

Quite often saying you can’t have kids leads to trite advice and questions about adoption. Simply expressing sympathy, acknowledging the reality instead of trying to fix things seems to be very difficult for some people.

I'm a parent but I generally prefer having friends who are either childfree for whatever reason or at a totally different stage of parenting to me. Otherwise it can get competitive/comparisons are made (note: not always). Plus (no offence to my kids) I find talking about kids pretty boring compared to other topics. So for me it's definitely not a bad thing if potential friends don't have kids, good, we can talk about other stuff!

I have several friends without children and all would have liked them but for different reasons, not finding a partner to have them with in time, not being able to conceive even though not that old, but they have made their peace with their situation. One friend unexpectedly did have a baby 6 years after being told it wasn't possible!

It's nobody else's business whether you decide to have children or not though.

I'm a mum and I love it and have always wanted a baby. However I totally see why some people wouldn't want this lifestyle or be able to afford it, I am so so so tired and can't do what I want when I want.
Similarly to how I can see the appeal of owning a pet dog but I would never want one myself with all the work and commitment that it entails.

The similarities with pet ownership sprung to my mind too. Dog owners will ask me if I have a dog. I will just say ‘no because I have a cat called x’. Quite often the dog owner will reply ‘eurgh I hate cats’ and then say why (I never asked! FYI I love dogs!)

I think folk are always trying to scope others out to see if they are like them. Maybe it’s to affirm their own choices, maybe it’s it’s to just find something to relate to. But there shouldn’t be judgement or to give unsolicited opinions or advice.

Im at an age where all my friends/ acquaintances are having kids. The inevitable question of ‘do you want kids?’ Is always lurking - I think it’s to find out if I’m like them and to confirm their choices as the right one to take (I couldn’t give a shit!).

I think it’s to find out if I’m like them and to confirm their choices as the right one to take (I couldn’t give a shit!)

This is my take, too. It's a very loaded question.

I think a lot of it is either a) "oh, I didn't realise kids were a choice, I just had them because it's what grown ups do!" thinking and b) (more generously) "my kids are the best thing ever and I want everyone to have the feelings they give me".

But I do think it's weird and ultimately comes from a place of having and/or wanting kids being the norm, so for many people, not conforming is always going to cause comment. It's also ironic, as I bet I've spent a lot more time agonising over whether it's the right choice/whether I'll regret it than most of my friends who do have kids!!

I thought my close friends "got it" whether or not they themselves have kids, then just a couple years ago my best friend asked if I regretted my decision. I was completely taken aback and just said "no". I wish I'd said "I'd never ask you if you regret your decision to have kids, why do you think I'd regret my decision not to?".

To me and everyone i know childless means you don't actually have any kids but childfree means you are a parent but not physically with your children at that moment. E.g I've got 2 children and if I go out for a coffee or whatever without them I could say 'I've gone out for a coffee childfree!'

Yes, there was someone else on the board a while ago who kept arguing that she was automatically included in the definition of childfree whenever she was without her kids.

Childless is involuntary. Childfree is a choice & as far as many of us are concerned, a positive one to celebrate. Obviously not everyone on the board fits easily into one of those two categories.

Every so often parents come here & tell us they used to be childfree but then changed their minds & now wouldn’t be without their kids. We’re pleased for them but not that interested.

Tales of how people adopted cats are a whole other matter.

I don't know many childless people but I know lots of childfree by choice.
I'm not childfree myself but lots of my friends and colleagues are.
I'm in a new ish job (I work in academia) and I'm the only one in my office who is a parent.
The others (mostly women ) are all childfree and they say openly 'I don't want children, I like my life how it is'.
It's very refreshing that's people's attitudes are changing and I quite like that being childfree is the norm.
I hate competitive parenting and talking about sleep routines and all that boring shite. I don't have to do that anymore, we talk about music, holidays, nice places to visit. It's interesting 😊

I don’t know anyone who uses childfree in that way. Most people I know say without the children or adults only.

An idiot I met recently, who thought it would be a great idea if I minded her 12yo for her, had the insolence to ask "Why not?" when I refused and said I'm childfree and don't want their company.

And then they tell you that you will never know true love/tiredness/anger/heartache unless you have children..

Totally this. Real friends never ask, just accept.
Random strangers are f*ing rude.
And they also judge childfree women far more than they judge childfree men.

@BeaRF75 men are allowed to have options, women are supposed to have a biological imperative that overpowers all else.

I chose not to have children for a reason unpalatable to many. I find them extremely boring. I have no desire for their company.

I'm with you there, @Billyballyboo! Not interested in them, don't want their company.

I love my nephew but children in general I can take or leave.

Lots of parents (including myself) will have carefully considered between the choices of becoming a parent or remaining child free. Of course we know there could have been the option to stay child free and at least I’m aware of the pros and cons of both choices.

I’m not childfree because I don’t consider children a burden to be free of, like being debt free or similar. I would have like children but I’ve come to terms with how my life has worked out. I’m not childless in the sense it’s usually meant, because I never had the opportunity to find out if I could conceive. I just don’t have children.