“It's probably because it never occurred to them that they also had a choice.” - BBC article

[musixa]

Really interesting BBC article based on interviews with the group Bristol Childfree Women. Lots in this resonated with me, so I thought I'd share it:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c72pnllv8nko

I think that if, whether by choice, say following a belief such as no sex before marriage or veganism, or by chance, say you have a disability or you are of a minority race, you will always find yourself with a slight sense of not fitting fully into said society.

In my opinion this feeling is because society has norms, and although they change over time, the thoughts and beliefs of the individual members of society don't change at the same rate, so the young adult population will have a higher proportion of people who have altered from the past norm, compared to those in the 60+ age group.

Society doesn't go against change, but the individuals making the choices to change should be able to acknowledge that these choices will change society in a way that for them is beneficial, but that others might feel more comfortable without this change.

Change will happen, everyone will deal with it, but not everyone will be happy, and society is set up to make the majority happy, and one day the minority will become the majority and it will be their turn, but it might very well not be in an individual's lifetime.

That should say " one day a minority may become a majority"

I think the percentage of women who are without children by the end of their fertile years years is currently sitting at 20%. Whenever I meet someone new, say at work, I always secretly hope they might be a fellow childfree person - then I have a little flush of disappointment when they inevitably mention their DC.

Great article. I was originally childless not by choice but now feel childfree. Like some of the women in the article I often sense discomfort when I mention I am actually quite happy with the way my life turned out.

Like Megan in the article, I had excruciating periods and longed for a hysterectomy; I eventually got one at 42 - but for medical reasons. I felt angry on her behalf about being told she didn't need one because her partner had had a vasectomy. His vasectomy isn't going to alleviate her pain, and it is especially frustrating when you know that pain is serving absolutely no purpose in your life.

I read this and thought oh do grow up. I am 63, childfree by choice and have never felt any pressure from society, my family, my friends, fleeting social encounters, my work, where I choose to shop, medical encounters, leisure activities or any of the million and one other relationships that 20th/21st century people living in a privileged free country form throughout life. I'm not special, or disadvantaged, or deserving of any more consideration and kindness than anyone else. I just didn't have children.

That's interesting, @squashyhat . My feeling is that the amount of pressure you encounter may very much depend on the circles you mix in, and family demographic. E.g. my husband's female relatives are mostly non-working mothers, their children seem to be their main purpose in life. I got flak for not making my MIL a grandmother (not from MIL herself, she is a lovely, gentle person).

I never felt any stigma in being single and child free. Married in 40s and now surrounded by children. Life is not about Ur status as anything. Just be kind and nice wherever u find urself in life.

In more than 3 decades of working in academic libraries, I’ve never felt childfree women - or men - were in short supply. I am the sole parent in my core group of 6 friends formed in this workplace. Amongst younger colleagues it’s a similar picture.

Those who do have children generally chose to do so over 30. When I was younger this wasn’t the case, but life is so expensive in the Home Counties that younger motherhood is unlikely to be a very obvious choice without even thinking about careers and other demographics.

I never wanted children was always up front about it but I have certainly had the questions asked regularly about when I would be starting a family by in laws and more annoyingly I was refused sterilisation at 30 when I didn’t want to keep using contraception on the grounds I would change my mind soon.
I was also fobbed off when late teens/early twenties by gp about painful periods as his view was that they would settle down once I had a baby. Smiled patronisingly when told that I didn’t want children.
I have been told by mothers that as I am not a mother I don’t know what real love is and also that I have no right to an opinion on anything child related.

Absolutely it’s about the circles. I do an outdoorsy sport and in one women’s team I’m in only about a quarter over 30 are mothers, maybe less even.

I agree. I don’t relate to this article at all. I’m 35 and have never felt any societal pressure. I’ve had a couple of 80+ women try and cheer me up by trying to reassure me I’ve still got time, but I’ve always felt those encounters were amusing and not remotely upsetting. I honestly don’t get the fuss. No one cares.

I have been told by mothers that as I am not a mother I don’t know what real love is and also that I have no right to an opinion on anything child related

That comes as standard for a lot of CF women. IMO the people who say that don't get to define what love is nor tell me whether or not I'm entitled to an opinion. As I've said here and elsewhere, I'll decide that, thanks very much.

I didn't have much pressure at all apart from one (male) colleague who took it as a personal insult that I didn't have and didn't want children and never stopped haranguing me about it until told to zip it. (Ironically he was in an HR department). I get people occasionally assuming I have children in casual conversation - if I'm likely to see them again I put them straight, if I'm not I don't bother. I certainly never had any pressure from family.

Fascinating to see the different responses to this article, thank you.

Whatever your views, madness to long for menopause, for lots it’s much worse than periods, went on far too long for me. Life has never been the same since ( was 45), then hormonal depression and now Parkinson’s,.

I'm sixty, and never felt pressure or like a freak or anything else. I've had random morons say "but don't you want babieeeeeeees" when I said I was happily single (the last time when I was 47 🙄) and other random morons get huffy when I didn't want to have their toddlers' sticky hands on me. But that's it. My friendship group when I was in my thirties was all childfree. My friends now are mostly grandmothers, but any questions are easily halted by saying I don't like children and never have.

As for anyone thinking the world is set up either for mothers or childfree women - ha! It's set up for men.

It does depend on what your periods are like. I prayed for the day my menopause would come and eventually had it surgically - my worst menopause symptoms are a breeze compared to the agony of my periods, by the end I was lucky to get one painfree week in four, as the pain would start just before ovulation and continue till the end of my period.

The only person with my childlessness I upset was exMiL. Her son still hasn't procreated either!

I have a child and still get pestering like having more makes me a better person. I told my colleague to stop asking me about my vagina

Society does have a funny double take on motherhood, when you're young it's all oh we can't take the chance you'll change your mind and want a baby, but as soon as you cross that age line into menopause people frown and disapprove massively if a woman finds a way to have a very late baby. I remember a woman who had a DC in her 60s through IVF treatment abroad and the same people who said every woman should want a child were frothing at the mouth aboit how wrong that was.

I often say to people who nag me to have children that even if I did they wouldn’t be happy. I’m the wrong age, the child is the wrong sex, I have the wrong number of children, I don’t feed them right, wrong school, too much pocket money, not enough freedom, too much screen time, not enough screen time etc. so I might as well just make the choices that make me happy and then I’m always right to someone.

@Glassbadger you are so right, parenthood seems like a competition, whose doing it right and who are the also rans! The next stage on, of course, is whose being a wonderful DGP.

I do have a child, and am delighted I do as she is lovely, but for a long time expected and wanted to be child free, so I find it interesting reading the article and all of your comments - thank you. It's nice to see a discussion where there are different opinions but nobody seems to be interested in taking offence or insulting each other ....

In that spirit, I have a question which I hope won't offend, to those who are child-free but have been upset when they have been told they shouldn't have an opinion on children.....

Do you not feel (somewhat?) less entitled to an opinion? I mean, only to an extent - of course anyone can have an opinion on anything. But take for example horses. I have never owned a horse and I don't work with horses. Say a conversation came up, about whether your horse can truly love you - I might have some opinions just based on my views of other animals, on what I have read about horses and so on - but I would definitely defer to experienced horse owners on the issue.....

I realise that you all were once children, and I was never a horse. And I know many child free women work with children, which really gives you more right to an opinion on them than a woman who has experience only of the two or three children she gave birth to and their small circle of friends.....

But I mean in general. And the reason I ask is because, when I was child free, I remember being horribly upset by somebody telling me I couldn't understand something (her distress over her child falling out with her) because I didn't have a child.....

And now I wonder why that upset me so much, because in some ways (not all) she had a point.....

I hope this question doesn't offend anybody by the way - I honestly don't mean it to. And I agree that to say to anyone "you don't understand love" is truly disgusting - love comes in so many forms, and the love for one's child is but one of these.

I don't think it's wrong to say that there are things many (not all) childfree women can't relate to or understand. No I'll never experience what it's like to look at a baby I've just given birth to or what it feels like to hear your child screaming in pain. I don't have an opinion on much of the minutiae of parenting and my opinion would be pretty irrelevant anyway.

Then again, we were all children once and, in my experience, many childfree women have spent a huge amount of time thinking about childhood and parenting. I'm always amazed when I ask friends with new babies a question like "what would you want to do differently from what your parents did?" and they say "oh I don't know I've never thought about it". I've spent quite a lot of time thinking about what kind of parent I would want to be even though I have no plans to have kids.

I'm not offended @Ilovelurchers by anyone saying I don't understand how a Mother feels about their DC because I know it's true. At the risk if being a bit offensive myself, I can see that Mother love is blind, not many DP's can really see their DC for how they are and even if they can, they can't change how they feel. I read a few threads on here where I think a parent should cut their losses with their adult child but I know they probably wont