When you read threads about difficult children...

[Wishimaywishimight]

I sometimes read 'active' threads about difficulties mums are having with their children - it's purely out of curiosity / boredom as I have none of my own (through choice).

Once in a blue mood I idly wonder what life with children would have been like. That ship has long sailed, I'm in my 50s and have a lovely life with my DH but I do sometimes wonder as I get older if I would have enjoyed life with older teens / 20s and beyond, I'm sure I would however I wasn't willing to go through 18 + years of child rearing to get there!

Today I am reading a thread about a woman having trouble with her teenager and I think to myself that I am just not equipped to handle that. I know the strength of a mother's love (allegedly) would make it bearable but the thought of a teenager shouting or swearing at me in my own home would make me just want to argue back or throw them out rather than try and 'bond' with them, understand them, let them away with crap ("pick your battles") etc.

I know that most children / teens are probably, largely, wonderful but it's the outliers that I read about here that make me truly thankful I made the choice I did!

I read those threads in horror too, & thankfulness that I don’t have kids. But the threads about how lovely it is to be a parent don’t make me want kids either, so while it’s true that I have no way of knowing for sure, not having them was probably the right move.

(And I came to Mumsnet for the feminism).

I wasn’t really sure what kind of response you are expecting from the statement but I guess you don’t know how your children will turn out. In the same way they you don’t know how a marriage will turn out or a sibling could suddenly turn in you in the future.

Im a mum and the only way I could compare your statement to was “imagine if I decided to get married, would I be like those women on mumsnet (or at the school gates or PTA) that loath their husband - I’ve had quite a lot of freedom as a single mum with a decent network and I just can’t imagine being restricted like some of my married friends”

Of course - you would then get people who do not feel trapped in their marriages at all. Who have very respectful husbands etc.

In the same way you have parents enjoying the teen years, who are amicable with their children and who have really invested in the relationship with their kids.

Sadly it’s hard to imagine how you would be as parenting is a very complex relationship - in the same way I’m sure marriage is.

I thought this was the MNers without children forum??

@EEyesopenwideawake Indeed, it was just meant to be a bit of a chat with other MNers who don't have children.

I posted on impulse, in what I thought was the most appropriate forum, having read a particular thread which gave rise to some thoughts and feelings, that's all.

I totally missed that part! 🤦‍♀️😆 Enjoy ladies 🍷

Unfortunately your most busy threads are about children. Therefore it pops up for those of us scrolling by.

When you are talking about a particular thread about parenting, there are going to be parents commenting here.

No it doesn’t. That’s honestly not usual and could be why your child’s playing up.

@theeyeofdoe Do you think that in the environment we evolved in, tall and strong teenage boys were still relying on their parents for everything and living in a nuclear family set up? No way were they.
I've read and researched a good bit about this.
I'm a burnt out single mother (but recovering) and yes I get fed up at times as it's been utterly exhausting in body, mind and spirit bringing up two boys on my own. Thankfully, they aren't young kids any more and I have a bit more freedom.

Oh this came up in active! I didn’t realise this wasn’t for people with kids (MN can be confusing). I would have ignored otherwise.

Couldn’t have put this better myself. I’m sorry that you went through this too.

The ones I feel for most are those with severely autistic children . I've read a couple of threads from parents whose lives have been absolutely ruined and they are at breaking point by children this damaged . I know I wouldn't cope either and if I was autistic I wouldn't have children .

You have to remember people don't post about the ordinary, the average, the also rans. Cooperative, friendly, average academically who aren't sporty or musical just aren't interesting to read about so those threads even if created won't get many replies so you won't see it on active usually. Same goes for much of life.

I truly believe we step up to what life throws at us, and we have lots of capacity to do all kinds of things but also it's just human nature to idly wonder what if...

As long as we are happy whether we have no kids or 4 is a personal thing

I never wanted kids and nothing I've ever seen has made me waver in that decision.

However, I can see how happy having children makes my friends. It's not all roses and, sometimes they've said it's such hard work they wish they'd never bothered, but in general they revel in the joys and cope with the downsides...sometimes often through great strength and hard work on their part.

As for coping with teenagers, by the time their children are teenage they've had 12 years of getting to know their child, forming a bond with them and learning skills to cope in so many situations. As a childfree woman it's hard to imagine having an instant teenager thrust upon you and you imagine you would struggle to cope, but mothers generally don't have a teenager arrive unknown in the house.

As for coping with teenagers, by the time their children are teenage they've had 12 years of getting to know their child, forming a bond with them and learning skills to cope in so many situations. As a childfree woman it's hard to imagine having an instant teenager thrust upon you and you imagine you would struggle to cope, but mothers generally don't have a teenager arrive unknown in the house.

That’s very true, I think. Some friends of ours have adopted two children recently- the kids are primary school age, and the parents late 40s/early 50s. They are really, really struggling with what other parent friends say is fairly unremarkable child behaviour. We have wondered if that’s down to a combination of knowing the kids as well as they would if they’d had them since birth, and being just a couple of years older and more set in their ways.

PS please don’t take that as me criticising them or the adoption. I don’t mean it that way, I think they’ve done an amazing thing. Just observing how difficult it is.

Parenting is an ever evolving and changing process. You build your skills and experience over time, and hope that the love and bond you have developed reciprocally throughout the years helps you to navigate the challenging times. It's like starting a new job, in a new field. You don't know what you're doing, but you look to colleagues for support, read books, get on the job training. When a challenging situation arises a few years later, you reflect back on how you dealt in other situations and think about what worked and what didn't. You put that into practice.

If you don't work hard and build the foundations you're going to struggle parenting, the same as you would in a job.

Like a pp wrote regarding parents who adopt their children. This can be extremely challenging as they may have completed lots of 'training' (courses etc) but have never done the job (parenting that specific child). Like being expected to fly a plane when you haven't had enough training.

So op whilst I understand your perspective where you think you couldn't do parenting a teen. You really don't know until you're in it and you've had 15 years prior experience of being a parent. It's also like saying 'I couldn't be a carer for a family member'. But if your parent developed dementia or your partner became very unwell, 'most' people can't imagine doing that role until they just are.

It's also like saying 'I couldn't be a carer for a family member'. But if your parent developed dementia or your partner became very unwell, 'most' people can't imagine doing that role until they just are

This is the crux of it. For most of us we love our families and so we step up when they need help because we are decent people who don't want to hurt the people we love. You accept 'the new normal' and get on with it. And a stroppy teenager is one of the least bad of these situations. With children you know they are going to grow and change and become more independent, but when caring for a family member who is dying you know they are only going to become more and more dependent.

It's also like saying 'I couldn't be a carer for a family member'. But if your parent developed dementia or your partner became very unwell, 'most' people can't imagine doing that role until they just are

Yes… but most people get to make the initial choice whether they are or aren’t going to have kids.

Some very interesting posts.

I remember reading something about how the mind adapts to an objectively worse life so we don’t feel worse off / think “what if I had made different life choices”, so I absolutely believe people when they say that despite challenges which from the outside seem utterly horrific (like that thread about the abusive teenage son), they are glad they had children. It’s the brain’s coping mechanism.

Same as PP, I also don’t know anyone in real life who isn’t happy with their decision to have children. Only ever see this on MN.

I look at a lot of threads about life with children on here and think to myself "What an absolutely shit existence".

Perhaps there's an innate love which makes it all bearable and fine.

But I don't want any single day in my life to be bearable and fine.

I look at a lot of threads about life with children on here and think to myself "What an absolutely shit existence".

I was quite open to the idea of having kids until I started reading mumsnet. The hideous reality of it as seen here was definitely a factor in my deciding it wasn’t for me.

Yes, objectively, the cases in question are an absolutely shit existence, especially for women. I think if women mindfully considered it, they wouldn’t have children because it disadvantages them far, far more than it does men.

But it is a decision that is rarely made mindfully. If it were, the species would die out 😅

It is very often a shit existence. I'm 17 years in and I still feel the longing for freedom. It's relentless responsibility, frustration, dumming down, self sacrifice, drudgery with a financial and career penalty. Oh, and you get judged by others.

That's so negative I know, but for me accepting that reality has made me stronger as I'm not gaslighting myself. It helps to know what I'm dealing with.

There are some good times and I'm trying to roll with the punches so to speak.

The judgment of mothers (rarely fathers 😒) on MN is appalling.

Im not sure how this applies to this thread or more specifically the OP though?

There is a lot of judgement of mothers, on MN and society and the media in general, absolutely, and so much more than there is on fathers and a lot of it is completely unjustified like the villifying of single mothers whilst ignoring the absent fathers

But the OP isn't judging mothers, shes looking to her own abilities and limitations. If there is any judgement its all the people coming in to judge the OPs self awareness and tell her how she would cope and she would manage and she just doesnt understand as if every woman automatically makes a good mother when that is unfortunately not always the case.