Do you have “alternative milestones”?

[UnderwaterSpaceCadet]

Note: this is posted on the Childfree board and I’m mainly interested in the views of posters who don’t have children

I was reading this article in the Guardian - and it’s interesting, but I don’t know how I feel about the assumption that women, in particular, have to fill their lives with something. Isn’t it enough to just, well, be?

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/oct/30/ive-chosen-to-be-child-free-here-is-how-i-plan-to-build-a-life-full-of-joy-and-meaning

I don't have milestones, I make sure I'm happy and I like my life and I do the things I want to do and I celebrate my achievements but I don't have a life plan, I'm flexible.

Just saw it.
Rather than milestones it's overall goals like travel to certain places(if they would just stop destabilising just when I can finally go🙄), early retirement somewhere nice and overall happiness /content wifh my life.

It is absolutely enough to "just be". For some the "just be" is the part of why they are childfree. No pressures of time line of things that should happen.

I read that article yesterday. Or at least I started to read it but found it so irritating and patronising that I gave up.

I do not need to fill my life with alternative milestones, things to stop me being bored or new friends who are only friends because they are also childfree.

The article confirms some of the false beliefs you read on here, that our lives are empty and somehow wrong and incomplete so need special planning.

A lost opportunity to discuss the lives of childfree people.

I think it's case of FOMO in some way from the writer.
If one really is content with being childfree I don't think they would try to replicate life with children based on parental/child milestones basically...

Interesting article.

If it works for the writer, great, but it's not something I feel the need to do.

The 'life is long' comment - well, so it is for parents, if they are relying on their children's milestones to get them through life, what do they do when their children have passed them all?

Travelling, educating yourself, celebrating birthdays and expanding your friendship circle - all things that might bring enjoyment, but I don't feel the need to make a tick-list of them; if it feels right to do them, then I will.

The parent's quote about getting excited over the tooth fairy, going to Peppa Pig World etc. - that kind of thing washes over me, because I can't imagine myself ever getting excited on a child's behalf by that kind of thing. The loss of my first tooth was quite a scary experience for me and not one I have a desire to relive, and Peppa Pig World - just no 😃

But good to see a child free woman being given space in The Guardian - it's all steps towards the normalisation of the childfree state, even if in the current world the author has to write from the position of an 'other' to be accessible.

I agree, the article really didn't resonate with me. I am enough as I am, and have never thought I needed to make a special effort to fill my life because I'm not a parent. But I suspect the writer might have the same sort anxiety about their life whether they had children or not.

I think you’ve all articulated what I was thinking about the article. And I completely agree with this

But I suspect the writer might have the same sort anxiety about their life whether they had children or not.

It does seem more like the writer is going through some kind of existential questioning / FOMO

I do wonder whether most parents really have the deep joy in things like Peppa Pig World that she seems to think they do. It’s not some thing I’ve ever heard friends of mine with children praise.

I have things I'd like to do but I don't regard them as milestones to be ticked off and sweated about. In my copy of the Daily Stoic, there is an entry about the circle of control- what's in it and what isn't; and what is in it is your mind. Nothing else. At the end it says 'when everyone else is running around with a list of responsibilities a mile long you've just got that one item list.'

I don't buy into this idea that CF people -and let's face it, that means women - have to justify their existence by good works and meaningful experiences to fill their otherwise empty and meaningless lives because I don't see my life like that. If you can and you want to, fine. Stoicism says that' you have two essential tasks in life - to be a good person and to pursue an occupation that you love. Everything else is a waste of energy and a squandering of potential.'

That's quite enough to be going on with.

I don't have milestones, I make sure I'm happy and I like my life and I do the things I want to do and I celebrate my achievements but I don't have a life plan, I'm flexible

I was thinking the other day that I've never really had plans - career plans, what I want to have done by the time I'm 40 plans, things I must do and see before I die plans. Like you, I'm flexible. I find that that way you don't get thrown off course by events because you never really had a course in the first place. 😆

I have definitely bimbled through life without plans - but I think this would have been the case even without choosing not to have kids!

DH and I want to live by the seaside in the next 5 years or so and 'm doing some professional exams which is all part of that, but I think that might be the first plan I've ever made.

I wonder if it's an age and stage thing too as I'm a similar age to the writer (she's 34) and the article does resonate with me. My 20s were spent building my career, my early 30s I got engaged, married and bought the house. The typical 'next thing' is having children. There's a poster on this board who writes eloquently about how being childfree is a different culture. It's difficult to go against the status quo and cultural norms. Of course it's enough to just be, but I think it has to be learnt. I've been on the hamster wheel of achievement since age 5, it's hard to just turn that off and not think 'what's the next thing I need to tick off?'. Especially in an age where we're so reliant on constant dopamine hits.

Honestly I just live, doing the things I want to do. And having a child wasn't one of those things so I didn't.
That simple, for me.

I remember having a conversation with a friend when she was trying to get pregnant, and she told me: "I think part of wanting a child is simply that life feels boring now. I go to work, I go on holiday, I do the gardening... can I really just do that for the next 40-50 years?" For her, she couldn't imagine that, and having a child represented something to work on and a focus for her life that felt missing otherwise.

Which might sound sad in some ways, but I think we all make choices about how we want to make our lives feel purposeful and important.

Once you have a kid, that choice is kind of irreversibly made for you, whereas if you choose not to, the question stays alive in a more moment-to-moment way.

It's a game of 'And now what? And NOW what?' that is less present for women with kids, because the 'what' is led by your children.

So maybe this is less about 'child free women have to justify their existence in other ways because they're missing something' and more about 'how do we all, as human beings, create a sense of meaning and focus in our lives?'

So for Emma Gannon (the writer - who actually has done a lot of writing on this topic in some very thoughtful and honest ways), it's through goals and milestones, things to work toward and look forward to – for others, like some PPs, it's more small lifestyle things, 'bimbling' (love that word) along, changing course on a regular basis. Either is fine, just like choosing to have a child or not is fine.

It's possible to know that you are enough just as you are, and still want to explore a sense of purpose and meaning over and above that – and I think we're allowed to ask those questions as CF women as much as we're allowed to not do so.

Some of the comments on that article are depressing. I found this one (a Guardian Pick!) particularly nauseating

Unsurprisingly, the common platitudes used here and everywhere else for and against having kids are unenlightening. The yeas seem to always miss the mark and the nays are ignorant by definition. Can this person find happiness and meaning without kids? Of course, if she's up to the challenge. Would she be grateful to have experienced bringing life into the world and caring for it? Yes, if she were up to the challenge. The one piece of advice I can offer the writer - not that she asked - is if she doesn't have kids of her own, look for opportunities to be near them as an aunt, a close family friend, a godmother etc. Kids are the most important things in the world, and they're superhumanly sensitive and smart, with an innocence, curiosity and creativity found in no other living thing. Just to be near it is a gift. If you can stand the screaming.

I think it’s a big a mistake trying to plan your life in that kind of waterfall way. If your goals don’t evolve and change over time, there’s something a bit wrong, imo. Much more sensible to occasionally take stock and ask yourself, is this making me happy now? Do I want more or less of it?

You might start off thinking you want a “big career”- but what if it then turns out that management bores you and what you enjoy is understanding the detail? Do you suck it up and plough on through because that’s the plan? Lots of people do, but a lot of them end up burnt out and miserable and wondering where it all went wrong, and having to stick with the misery because they’ve committed themselves financially up to that level.

The one piece of advice I can offer the writer - not that she asked - is if she doesn't have kids of her own, look for opportunities to be near them as an aunt, a close family friend, a godmother etc. Kids are the most important things in the world

Typical smug fucking Guardian advice to a non-parent. What if she doesn't want to be someone's surrogate aunt? what if she doesn't think kids are the most important thing in the world? what if she doesn't want the 'challenge'?

The one piece of advice I can offer the writer - not that she asked

Got that right. Welcome to the CF world of unsolicited advice from parents.

This!
We don't need "milestones" and we don't need some sort of compensation or consolation prize because we are childfree. We are just people getting on with our normal lives.

Interesting, I’m also 34 and it doesn’t resonate with me at all (I also find Emma gannon intensely irritating so I may be biased). I don’t feel like it’s been difficult for me to push against social norms at all, in fact I have an innate rebellious streak that’s made me actively want to be different from “most people” since I was a kid. It’s never occurred to me not to just wander through life doing exactly what I wanted. That said, now I have a lot more money than I did in my 20s, I do have lots of travel goals, but they’re not solid plans, just places I know I want to go and I have the next 30+ years (hopefully, all being well) to visit. My parents were also slightly bohemian types that never pushed social norms onto me or any expectations, really - they always prioritised telling me to do what made me happy and be whatever I wanted to be.

Yep. Absolutely right.

I got the impression she's at that stage where everyone around her is in a child-rearing bubble and she's feeling at a loss. I'm 15 years ahead of her, and to be honest, while I do remember that pain of being the odd one out at the time, other bigger worries have supplanted it - both parents dying suddenly, work crises, illness, financial complications, mortgages, etc, etc.

There's something a bit 'mindfulness journal' about wanting to create artificial milestones for yourself. Fine if you've got the time and headspace, but when it comes down to it, just living life in your forties can suck up pretty much all your available energy. And that's OK.

It annoyed me that the example of 'giving something back' was 'be a Trustee for the National Theatre' which is far out of the average person's reach.

Could they not have found one childfree person who volunteered at a food bank/Citizen's Advice/local litter pick.

I wonder if it's an age and stage thing too as I'm a similar age to the writer (she's 34) and the article does resonate with me

At 34 I was picking myself up from a failed marriage and my only thoughts about children were 'this is shit and he's a shit and it would be ten times shittier if we'd had kids.'

My parents were also slightly bohemian types that never pushed social norms onto me or any expectations, really - they always prioritised telling me to do what made me happy and be whatever I wanted to be

Mine weren't the bohemian type (SAHM and naval officer) but they were pretty much like yours, esp DF. TBF I've often wondered how interested my mother was in her children and what they did anyway 🙄

I'm different to some pp in that I do enjoy being an "aunty" and having children in my life and have actively sought it. This means that I know for certain you don't have to have your own children in order to experience that "reliving life" thing.

Recent things I have experienced with friends children include marvelling at fish and sea creatures in a sea life centre, enjoying a Halloween disco, gaining confidence in swimming, starting to learn to read and starting to understand about death! Those things are absolutely out there for people who are not parents if you choose them.

Not everyone ( maybe not all parents) wants that experience and that is absolutely fine too of course!

@TedMullins My parents were also slightly bohemian types that never pushed social norms onto me or any expectations, really

This probably has something to do with it. My parents were not. Civil servants who had high expectations and expected us to conform. My sister and I complied and now in our 30s are beginning to rebel, but it is really difficult to 'disappoint' them.

@MainlyOnThePlain I got the impression she's at that stage where everyone around her is in a child-rearing bubble and she's feeling at a loss

I felt this too, and again I personally relate but can understand not everyone will.

I foster cats & campaign for women’s sex-based rights. That’ll do for giving back.