Child free people being told they deserve less yet being expected to do more!

[JenniferBooth]

Has anyone on here experienced any of this?

1. Employment..........being expected to work the Christmas shifts (because the parents want the time off) even though you did it the previous year or the last few years..
2. Family Being expected to take on the care of a child even though you have chosen not to have your own because of emotionally charged comments like " i feel sorry for the child cos none of his family members want him"
3. Housing. particularly social housing, where if you dont have children you are only entitled to a small flat or a bedsit, and God forbid if you happen to live in a bigger place you are told that it is your moral duty to downsize for families.
4. Being asked at a job interview if you have children and then being asked "why? Dont you like responsibility" when you say no. Happened to me back in 2004

1. Nope. I work shifts and as it doesn't work that you work one then have one off by default due to the way the rota is worked out everyone goes into a draw and chooses their preferences in order they're drawn out. We all have equal chance although can swap if you like there's never any pressure.

1. That's very extreme, I highly doubt that the majorty of child free people have been asked to take on a family members child!

1. I used to live in a HA flat, it makes sense to me really, I never thought I should be entitled to a bigger place just for me. Me and DH now own a beautiful 2 bed house and haven't had anyone comment on it negatively.

1. Of course that's awful, no woman should be asked about their parental status- I'd say the bigger issue is being asked if you are planning a family or whatever as it's still used to actively discriminate against women of child bearing age.

I don't think he likes me very much right now but I don't particularly care.

I on the other hand think you’re awesome! @Catchasingmewithspiders

I was just thinking that earlier - didn't take long before it deteriorated into 'you don't have children so you don't have anything to do but work blah blah making Christmas special for children blah blah.'

Parents can't be with their children to make it enjoyable if they have to work

Childfree people can't be with their families to make it enjoyable if they have to work. Oh sorry, parents and siblings don't count as family. Just children.

Now just waiting for the 'you sound bitter/angry' comments.

I'd say the bigger issue is being asked if you are planning a family or whatever as it's still used to actively discriminate against women of child bearing age

This doesn’t just affect women who want or have kids, you know. Recruiters can’t tell the childless/free on sight so we get asked this too. Yes, in theory we have an answer that’s more likely to see us recruited but that doesn’t mean that we don’t also experience this discrimination in the first place. I had a lot of trouble getting the role I have now because I was just at the age where I’d have been expected to want to take a couple of mat leaves.

If being childfree was enough to override discrimination then then you could benefit too, simply by lying in your answer. But it isn’t - this affects all women whether they want kids or not.

Only thing to consider here is that there may be genuine childcare issues as most childcare settings including nurseries and childminders close for the xmas week. So it depends how the employer wants to manage that. But i also get it’s not fair on you.

This is probably very relevant here. I have sympathy for anyone who is being made to feel like their lives and social plans are less important just because they don’t have children. However, it is worth remembering that people citing “children” might not actually be saying that. There’s a high chance they can’t physically work because there is no one around to have their kids. Formal childcare and schools closed, family members travelling all over the place so less chance of informal childcare. If I had no one to look after my kids, I don’t have the opportunity to care what other people’s personal circumstances are unfortunately. Luckily whenever I’ve managed teams and had to wangle Christmas cover, it’s never been an issue, always enough non-Christmassy-folk volunteering. I’m sorry that’s not the experience of everyone.

As you were! Just wanted to chime in that it’s not (always) a conspiracy to make people without children feel less important etc.

But that’s something for parents to consider before they have children and as they continue their journey of being a parent, it’s not up to childless or childfree people to have a lesser quality of life, rest or family time to accommodate other peoples life, rest and family.

If I had no one to look after my kids, I don’t have the opportunity to care what other people’s personal circumstances are unfortunately. Luckily whenever I’ve managed teams and had to wangle Christmas cover, it’s never been an issue, always enough non-Christmassy-folk volunteering

What happens if the non-Christmassy folk don't volunteer? who do you call on then? You say you don't have the opportunity to care what other people's personal circumstances are - well, that's how I feel. I'm sympathetic, but it's not my issue to sort out. Like yu've said it's not yours to care about me. That cuts both ways, after all.

FTR I'm non Christmassy, I like the week between Christmas and NY because it's quiet and I get things done without interruption. What I won't do is give up my time off because someone reckons parental status trumps everything else.

Then in that case it’s the manager’s job to sort the issue, isn’t it? If someone can’t work due to lack of childcare then they can’t work, as they can’t leave their children home alone. If there is no one willing or able cover that shift, then it’s an issue for management to sort.

If I had no one to look after my kids, I don’t have the opportunity to care what other people’s personal circumstances are unfortunately

And I've been told I'm off Christmas I really don't care what childcare problems people have. Not my problem & I'm not giving up a Christmas Day off to accommodate them

2. That's very extreme, I highly doubt that the majorty of child free people have been asked to take on a family members child!
Maybe in the event of the parents' deaths? My childfree family members volunteered if the worst should have happened. Not wanting your own children doesn't necessarily mean you wouldn't want to care for children in your family in tragic circumstances, children you already know and love. I don't think it's a reason not to ask, as long as a no is respected!

Ive seen threads where a child free co worker is being put on more than the childs OWN FATHER

Has anyone asked you to? As I said above, if someone can’t work due to no childcare (they can’t leave a child home alone), and there is no one willing or able to cover (as in your case) then it’s up to management to come up with a solution to that problem. You’re right, it’s not your problem. It’s a management problem.

Put on by who? The parent? Or management?

The issue that we are discussing here is management making it childfree peoples issue

Last year my manager opened up the christmas holiday booking for the parents a week before he opened it up for the non parents. We got what was left.

He doesn't work for the company any more thankfully and I will certainly be doing Christmas fairly for my team but its hardly the first place ive worked where the issue of Christmas cover is directly made the childfree peoples problem

Then that’s absolutely wrong, I agree. Thankfully in all the places I’ve worked in (and there have been a lot), it’s always been a first come, first served system which means everyone has the same chance of taking a particular date off, regardless of their family situation.

Yes but even when I have worked at places where its been fairer you still get people bitching

I remember one year a woman dared to book off a week in the summer holidays, but didnt have children. Three of the women bitched across the desk about her loud enough for her to hear, and ignored her.

Even in the places where the management are okay the staff can make you feel like you are treading on eggshells if you book christmas/summer off

Thankfully in the many years I was single and booked Christmas off I was oblivious to any bitching!

Has anyone asked you to

Yes several times.

My work no longer do first come first served because all the parents were booking 2 Christmasses in advance it got ridiculous

Yes that’s ridiculous, I only allow people to book annual leave 12 months in advance. The diary opens to everyone on the same day at the same time.

Out of interest, how do they organise it now? I can’t see a fairer way than ‘first come, first served’.

I've done it before where everyone asks for what they want and then it's compared to last year and if someone had all of last year off they might need to work a day this year etc

In my current place I have it that everyone works 1 day as cover. We are very much in reactive mode over christmas though and we wfh so it's clear that whilst they need to monitor certain things if they happen to be building lego, shopping the january sales or watching a christmas film during that time its fine so long as they spring into action if something goes down.

At my workplace the parents get first dibs. It’s supposed to be first come first served but in reality the parents get their allocations and then the childless workers get whatever is left.

There have been a couple of occasions where a childless person has gotten time off at Xmas and it’s been rescinded because the parent allocated to work threw a strop and management are spineless.

I know this will just provoke a second chorus of “that’s bad management, it’s not parents’ fault!” but the parents at my workplace do absolutely take advantage. Plenty of them haven’t worked a Christmas in 8 years now.

We get an email in August asking us to email in our preferences for Christmas & New Year. A lot of people don't want anything because we get well paid for public holidays

Our bosses know how many they can allow off so they'll check if there's any extenuating circumstances. One year a colleagues Mum was terminally ill & it'd be her last Christmas. Another time someones brother was over from Australia for the first time in 10 years. Things like that are rare but people are happy to let that situation have preference.

They then go back through the previous year (or 2) and see who was given it previously & who hasn't had it for a while & its worked out that way

IF its all equal then its good old names in the hat 😂😂

It's a faff for whoever gets landed with it but they get no complaints when it's allocated

Yeah ok that makes sense. It’s similar in my workplace too, someone just needs to be on hand in case something urgent comes up. To be honest I’ve never had an issue with parents trying to hog all the time off at Christmas, my team are all pretty good at taking their turn. No one expects to have every Christmas period off.

I know this will just provoke a second chorus of “that’s bad management, it’s not parents’ fault!” but the parents at my workplace do absolutely take advantage. Plenty of them haven’t worked a Christmas in 8 years now.

Absolutely this. Childfree people are told they should be flexible, that they should understand if parents work falls on them because they need to leave early etc. So we do it, because we are told to be kind and that we should care.

Now wait for a parent to care about the fact a childfree person hasnt had a christmas off in years...

Its usually (but not always) the childfree women who are expected to put up with this shit as well.