Would you give a reference to a (former) very mediocre nanny?

[mediocre]

Was contacted a few days ago by a former nanny who was quite frankly not most professional employee I've ever had. She had her good points. The kids loved her. But she was a complete slob, I had ask her to do things over and over and over. Everything was always someone else's fault. She has trouble committing to anything in life for more than 20 minutes.

The thing is she is still friends with some of the same people I hang out with. So I don't really want any grief at the school gate.

But...

I can't in good conscience give her a recommendation I don't believe in. That would be very unfair on the poor family hiring her.

I think I know what the right thing to do is. But would like some opinions for reassurance.

Thanks.

Give her a fair reference then!

What do you mean by fair? Do you mean accurate?

You can't give a bad reference unless you've mentioned the issues to her and given her a chance to improve.

I would just respond honestly to any questions and if asked whether you'd employ her again, be honest, which will probably lead to the question of why.

I suspect what is NOT said in nanny references is sometimes more important than what is said.

In fairness to her you may have had very different standards re: tidiness and other people may only care about her relationship with the kids.

The lack of commitment might worry people, though. What makes you say she lacked commitment?

Yeah, I mean don't do a character assassination but don't lie either. However, I know nothing of the law so you might want to consult someone more knowledgable about that.

My tidiness standards are actually pretty low.

She flutters through jobs and intended course work without a care in the world. Can't decide what she wants to do. And then quites and finds something new... for about 10 minutes.

Oh, and she is always feeling sorry for herself. I took her on a trip to the continent and she complained that she had to sit next to a stranger. Then, she complained that she didn't get an free time. We went for a weekend and they only thing she was asked to do was b-sit for 2 hours on one evening. Tell me that's a hardship. Most expensive b-sitting I ever paid for, that's for sure.

She used to single out one of DD's friends because she didn't really like him. This child was 3 and I think it was the nanny who needed to grow up. I have since discussed this with said child's mum and he used to go home saying he didn't want to come to my house anymore.

Oh jeez, as I type I'm remembering all these things that used to really make me .

I'd tell the truth but focus on the positives. 'The children loved her.' etc

What you don't say can speak volumes.

I could just forget the request and make her follow up and follow up and follow up and then I'll finally tell her why I can't do it... just like she used to do to me.

Stick to her job performance rather than your feelings about her personality - did she demonstrate a lack of commitment to her job with you? I'm not sure it's appropriate for a referee to say "she was always feeling sorry for herself", but you could say she needed reminding to do her duties.

I'd keep the written reference fairly simple - "X worked for us from y to z, her duties were abc, she developed a strong relationship with the children. Please contact us if you wish to discuss further."

Then you can honestly answer questions over the phone.

Agree with Missus -if she had lacked commitment to her job (letting you down at short notice etc) then it might have been relevant but this is a professional reference for her so you need to stick to things she did/didn't do.

If you did try to address issues with her then you're perfectly entitled to mention them and say she didn't improve (as long as she didn't).

Is it a written request or verbal?

How long was she employed by you? Sounds like it may be more than just a week or so... thus not unreasonable for a new employer to want a reference from you.

Written reference could be done as Missus says... be factual with regard to dates worked to/from, sickness level / lateness arrival that sort of thing. Describe the things she did do.

did you not give her a written ref when she left?

but yes simply state facts, and rem she wasnt all bad as you said your kids loved her,which is the main thing

yes a tidy nanny is good and obviously needs to be punctual

how long did you employ her for?

If she wants a written ref, write a short one and say "Feel free to contact me for a chat" at the bottom with your number. Make it acceptably positive within the bounds of truth. Then you can tell more directly to the potential employer on the phone. I do that even for our very good ex-nanny, so that can give a more candid reference on phone.

A much older friend gave this tip and said when employing a nanny always, always call the referees if they've given their number.

at 'trip to the continent'

Well as somebody who was given a glowing reference by a frankly crap nanny i would say tell the truth or say nothing because when you are a knackered, stressed working mum it would be easy to miss what is not said as a hidden code and just think mediocres children loved her.

Yes, but you'd follow up on a written reference and get more detail about positive and negatives over the phone.

I understand the legalities of a written reference. The issue for me is that if I am truthful (even if I sugar coat it) word could go round the gate / local community and I really don't want any stick for what she will say about me when she finds out what I have said about her.

The request is for me to talk to the agency, and I would fully expect them to tell her everything I said.

She doesn't have one because I asked her to draught it before she left (which is what has always been asked of me every time I ever asked a former boss/superior for a reference), and she couldn't be bothered. So, I decided if she couldn't be bothered, neither could I, and it never materialised.

I wouldn't expect her to find out what is in the reference though would you, surely it's confidential ?

Just do a written reference which she can give to the agency confirming that she worked as your nanny between x date and x date looking after however many children she looked after and her duties during that time were a, b and c. And leave it at that.

Oh, I can imagine just the type of nanny you must have had.

I would not personally do a 'hatchet job' by phone but I would give my number and then be reticent when questions are asked - the words 'I feel uncomfortable answering that particular question so would prefer not to if you don't mind' speak volumes.

In terms of the written reference I would state the facts, start, end, salary, no of days ill during employment. Reason for leaving (resigned or given notice) and whether full notice was served (that can be quite informative in itself). And then perhaps one positive sentence on performance (whatever that may be - "I was confident that my children were always safe in her care" is a good one if you are struggling) and then have one coded comment at the end.

For example "She had a myriad of hobbies outside of work, and very much enjoyed living in the city" = flighty party animal, "She performed best in a calm and peaceful environment" = can't deal with young children and stress, "She could sometimes be very carefree and the children loved her occasionally chaotic approach to life" = totally unreliable.

Agencies can now be forced to disclose references (precedent) but they probably won't tell the nanny as a matter of course and Tinies fought very hard against a blanket disclosure of all references, arguing that they should remain confidential.

There are so many ways of saying things in a phone call...

"Well....the children loved her" - I didn't.

"Her approach to xxxx was very....relaxed" - she didn't give a damn/didn't do it

"I always found her very independent" - didn't take direction/instruction well and/or never told me what she was up to

She doesn't have one because I asked her to draught it before she left (which is what has always been asked of me every time I ever asked a former boss/superior for a reference), and she couldn't be bothered

you mean you used to draft your own reference?

tbh i would be very wary about writing my own ref (even tho im fab!!) and i would want the parents to say what they thought of me, not them agreeing what i had written iyswim

Well, I wouldn't agree to anything written. I would edit as appropriate and sign and pdf it when I was comfortable putting my name to its contents.

When you ask someone to do you a favour it is professional and courteous to do as much of the legwork as you can so you don't inconvenience them more than necessary.

And, yes, I have always beed asked to do this.

I once asked a teacher to write a reference for a uni application. I knew nothing about it and she informed me that it was common courtesy to hand over an addressed stamped envelope and a piece of paper on which to do this. She wasn't being rude. I was 18 and she was educationg me on a bit of common courtesy. (this was before the days of electronic communication)

I'm quite suprised you asked her to write her own reference, particularly as you didn't think she was great! Seems quite lazy to me.

I think this is common practice in the professional world.

Surely parents expect a reference to be written by the employer though, otherwise what is the point of it?