Would you give a reference to a (former) very mediocre nanny?

[mediocre]

Was contacted a few days ago by a former nanny who was quite frankly not most professional employee I've ever had. She had her good points. The kids loved her. But she was a complete slob, I had ask her to do things over and over and over. Everything was always someone else's fault. She has trouble committing to anything in life for more than 20 minutes.

The thing is she is still friends with some of the same people I hang out with. So I don't really want any grief at the school gate.

But...

I can't in good conscience give her a recommendation I don't believe in. That would be very unfair on the poor family hiring her.

I think I know what the right thing to do is. But would like some opinions for reassurance.

Thanks.

just seems weird to me for the nanny to write her own ref

I agree it is common practice in the professional world. Employers can edit as they please.

I don't think it's common in the world of childcare though, where references are so important. You would not expect that a nanny or childminder has written their own recommendation.

OP, if the nanny had written herself a glowing reference, would you have edited it to say she was very mediocre?

Given your feelings expressed here, I think she will have been well aware that you didn't think she was all that wonderful and as though the trust in the relationship had gone. So asking her to write her own reference is a bit strange, as she did not have a good enough relationship with you to discuss the reference while she wrote it, especially putting down her strengths and weaknesses.

I think you have a moral duty to write a fair reference, sticking to facts, whether positive or negative, backed up with examples, and make it balanced. If you do this and you are confident that you've done the right thing, then you will have no qualms about setting the school gate gossip right if this becomes an issue.

If it makes it easier, write a little essay for your own satisfaction about how you really feel. These feelings have no place in a professional reference.

You must be very cautious about what you say or write as the person whose reference you are supplying can bring you to an employment tribunal for anything see as unduly negative and you can be asked to provide evidence to back up any claims you have made.

This is often why in big organisations now HR departments only offer a 'standard' reference which includes; period of work, position, days of sickness, salary, whether they were dismissed or left of their own choice, etc.

I think that the best thing to do would be to just write a standard reference. It is not worth any possible problems if the nanny never acted dangerously or had any gross misconduct.

okay, asking someone to produce a draught is not the same as writing a final copy. Of course it would be edited if necessary.

"I don't think it's common in the world of childcare though, where references are so important. "

Perhaps nannies should consider whether or not they really want to be professionals.

I mean if one cannot put forth 10 minutes of effort to help someone do them a favour, then how interested are they in their own career?

My boss sometime asks me to do his typing. This is absolutely not my job. But, as an odd request here or there, it won't kill me to accommodate him. So, I do.

And she obviously does not realise that I am still annoyed with her (for many more reasons than I have typed here) or she wouldn't be expecting a nice reference from me.

I think I will give her the reference she has asked for. And I will make it nicer than I think she deserves. Admittedly this is entirely selfish putting my own desire for an easy life before the one of the poor sod who might hire her. I feel a bit like I'm letting the side down. But, that what I think I will do -- selfish as it is.

I am waiting for my own former mediocre nanny to ask me for a reference, and still dreading it after nearly 6 years... I assume she became a CM and did not need references.

I think other posters are right when they say your reference has to be accurate. If not the next employer can sue you, or indeed the nanny. To me this is a bigger risk than letting the side down.

My view would be to say positive things and leave others unsaid. Then to pick up the rest on a phone call. If the next employer doesn't take telephone references that is his or her look out.

And it's surprising how often something important to one family is not to another. I had one nanny whose previous temp contract wasn't extended because she didn't do little Jocasta's handwashing as instructed but instead used the delicates cycle in the machine. By contrast my entire household has nothing that requires handwashing at all, so that didn't concern me. [I was not brave enough to admit this to the referee ] And I didn't turn a maternity leave mothers' help into my nanny when I went back to work because she didn't have English mother tongue. The person who asked me for a reference for her was looking for someone to speak Spanish at home because her DCs spoke English enough everywhere else.

The next employer can sue me????

Yep. If you fail to disclose relevant info.

Minefield, isn't it?

FWIW I (nanny) have written my own ref before but it never felt 'right' IYSWIM for such a personal relationship. I developed a set of feedback forms for temp jobs to avoid it happening in the future. What is important to me may not have been the same things that were important to my employers. Nannying refs are usually more than a standard confirmation of employment (at least mine are!)

'childcare was her main priority' ?
(ie - couldn't be bothered to do anything else....)

I'd be looking to give the agency sufficient info between the lines that they can place her with a suitable family. They should be able to read between the lines of a lukewarm reference, probably a lot better than the nanny. And with any luck a future family can read between the lines to check and phone you.

Any reference is about reading between the lines, so don't worry about this one. On the phone, you can be more upfront. The family really should call you, and although you should still be honest, you can then say the negatives. If the agency have done their job, they may not be important to the family in question.

good luck though - it's really difficult.

I think it is only right that you write or give a decent reference without the niggly little bits that have bothered you.

The reason why I say this is because your judgement may be clouded, and it is only your opinion of her, not necessarily what she is really like.

There are always two sides to a story.

Back in 1995, I as a childcarer wrote my own draft version of a reference. It was then edited quite a bit and added to by my employer and I then typed it up for them to then sign. I had the computer, they didn't - yet they felt it was better typed than if they hand wrote it.

I agree with frakkit that it didn't feel right when drafting the initial reference. It is such a personal relationship that factors you consider are important, your boss may not feel are important... they may have other things they feel are important to say.

I certainly don't feel it's a common thing in the childcare world to write your own initial draft. Though I do see how it could be useful exercise as it may show what the nanny felt went well whilst in the job and what they felt their duties were.

You sound like you have very unusual expectations and perhaps project your own failings onto other people. She wasn't being lazy not writing her own reference ffs! That was YOU being lazy. It's YOUR job to write her reference, not hers. I don't know what profession you're from but none of the wide range of professionals I know write their own references. I think you should seriously consider whether your problem with the nanny might have been partly to do with a personality clash/your quirks.

I would give a positive short reference which is factually correct and then offer your phone number if anyone wants to speak to you. If anyone asks directly - you should be honest of your view

I would be very careful if you choose to say anything negative over the telephone. If the previous nanny finds out (and she can ask the potential employer) and they tell her what you have said and she equates that to be non-factual or defamatory in anyway she can take you to tribunal.

The potential employer can only sue you if you do not disclose something like gross negligence or missing extreme periods of work etc.

autodidact, you don't have enough information to make those observations. I have left tons of relevant information off of this thread.

As it happens, I have decided to focus on the nice but truthful things about her. And the things that really annoyed me I shall leave a bit open ended. So no one can say I didn't warn them, and she can't say I was not truthful.

how long did you employ the nanny for?

i still find it very weird that professionals (yes nannies are professional) write their own reference

I don' think it's that unusual for the employee to be asked to write the first draft of a reference.

The employee can then know that all the areas that are important to her are covered, and then the employer can edit it as she sees fit.