Help! Need advice re: retainer fee for childminder

[YellowRoseofTexas]

I'm going back to work in 3 months and am planning to place my son with a local childminder. Really excited to have found her--I think this is the perfect childcare solution for our family.

She is asking for a retainer fee (25% of the monthly fee) which in my understanding would usually be charged when a childminder is holding an EMPTY spot for a period of time. However, my son will join at the exact time another child leaves...I'm basically setting my start date by when the spot opens. Therefore, she has no lost wages, does a retainer seem unnecessary?

At the very least, I could see charging some sort of a deposit, that would cover her finding someone new if we pulled out. But with this policy we would be paying almost 1000 pounds before even starting childcare, which would not go toward her services!

Am I looking at this the wrong way? I want to do what's fair but as a new mom, I have zero experience with childcare. Please let me know your thoughts and experiences!

Many thanks!

You are right
A retainer is charged when the place is already available. I would not charge anything in this situation,some cms may charge a deposit but it sounds like she is trying. it on tbh

Agree, CM could reasonably ask for a deposit, but a retainer seems unfair at this point.

I don't know what is standard practice but this sounds outrageous!
IMO a deposit would be expected but not a retainer, especially as the space is not even free.

I would consider someone else if they pursue this. A £1000 is a lot of money to be wasting.

it sounds like it could potentially be quite abit of money (depending on how many hours you will have).
i would say you are happy to pay that amount as a deposit up front but i don't think it is technically a retainer if another child is currently filling the place.
however, if you really like the childminder maybe you are happy to pay it?

oh sorry, just read it again, 1000 is a great deal to be paying for a retainer that isn't needed. i would be tempted to stay away for fear that similar tricks would be pulled in the future.

I would be happy to pay this as a deposit, especially as it is in monthly installments. (It would be 300 per month, which would be 25% of her fees. He will be with her for four long days per week.) But as a retainer fee that I'd lose, it does seem outrageous and I don't think I'd pay it.

She is fairly new to childminding so it could be that she's actually not aware of when a retainer would be warranted. She seems lovely so I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt. But knowing your perspectives will really help me in discussing with her.

Mumsnet is a godsend...thanks so much for your quick replies. Welcome any further thoughts or comments!!

So you definately know that the minder has all three spaces of her under 5's ratio filled and that your child will be taking one of these spaces when a child leaves.
If that is the case, then no you shouldn't be paying a retainer on a space that is not currently available - it should be a deposit.

If however there is a space that is available NOW - ie she has only two spaces currently filled and has one available then yes the retainer fee is justified.

I would give her the benefit of doubt that she doesn't understand that a retainer can only be charged when the space is available. I would offer her a deposit of a months fee's to be used against the first months fee's.
If the space is not available presumably you will not be able to do any settling in sessions either.
If she is losing a mindee then she will be daft to not accept your offer and potentionally lose a good earner and have an empty space.
Call her bluff, give her the choice, if she says no then may be she's not the sort of childminder willing to work with you.
Check that there are no other hidden charges, ie sick pay, holiday pay and bank holidays as not all childminders charge them unless the child is ill or on holiday.

Danthe4th - why would settling in sessions not be available. Settling in can be with the parent (therefore not within the minders ratios) or when there are less children there - so i am not sure about the statement you have made regarding that.

Perhaps the minder genuinely doesn't understand about retainers/deposits.

As to checking to see if there are any 'hidden' charges - of course that goes without saying but everything should be detailed in policies and procedures and also on the contract.

OP, i know i have already replied but why not talk to your minder and see if there has been a misunderstanding on either of your parts or if a compromise can be met.

Hi

I am a childminder who is holding a place for November. As I am dealing with siblings already I have only ask for a deposit which is non refundable if not taken up.

I think the retainer is expensive but childminders are all different in their practices.

I am trusting that it will still go ahead.

The childminder is covering herself just in case you change your mind and she looses money.

Some childminders will change more?

If it is too much you may need to look again.

sorry me again. I am waiting for parent to let me have her requirements by ending of the month. As I need to plan ahead.

Mum2Bless, can you help me understand the following: "The childminder is covering herself just in case you change your mind and she looses money." It seems that by charging a non-refundable DEPOSIT (as you are for the child joining you in Nov) then she would be covered against possible loss if I change my mind. But instead, she wants to charge a RETAINER, meaning she's making money on the clients she has now, PLUS taking money for clients she'll have in the future.

She's come back to me tonight and said that retainer charges are endorsed by OFSTED's "Making Childminding My Business" handbook, and I should understand that she is a professional, not a babysitter, etc. (Which I do!!) And also said other parents are happy to pay to secure the place. (So basically playing me off of them?)

I can actually afford the fee but don't want to be taken advantage of, which is how it feels. Or is her approach to this fairly accepted and I'm being naive? (Doesn't seem that way by reading the other responses.)

Thanks again

I am a Childminder and have been for 10 years and my understanding is the same as many on here. Retainers are a standard practice but a retainer can only be charged for a space that is currently available and being held for you. If you pay the retainer you are entitled to utilise the space any time after you begin to pay it (as long as you give 'reasonable' notice - usually deemed to be a week)ie the Minder MUST have this space available. If however the Minder is currently full they are entitled to charge a deposit, often equivalent to a month's fee to secure a place that will be available in the future. This is normally non-refundable if you don't take up the space and is usually credited against either the 1st or last month's fees. I also charge a small admin fee to cover initial costs of contracts and other paperwork.
OFSTED have nothing to do with setting fees or ANY aspects of a childminder's business practice so this document she has quoted is nothing to do with them. I wonder if this is something from her Local Authority? In West Sussex we have training focussed on being more business-like, something childminders have not always been good at historically because of the very intimate relationships that often develop between them and the families they work with.
I would say that she is confused with terminology between deposits and retainers and would refer her to the National Childminding association (www.ncma.org) for guidance.

Hugely helpful, ChildrenAtHeart. Thanks so much, everyone! I will use all this information to discuss with her, but even if it is a lost cause (if she's convinced other parents to pay, she probably won't spend much time debating with me!), I am much more informed going forward in my search.

Glad to be of service lol. Good Luck. Let us know how you get on.

Good luck! Ask to read her copy of this "ofsted" booklet. It doesn't sound like anything from Ofsted (they have nothing to do with the financial/contract side of childminding). It sounds like this booklet from camden council. However this says "Retainer fees should only be charged if the childminder is available for work and has a vacancy and the childminder is likely to lose potential income".

I think she's gotten in a bit of a muddle and if you have a chat with her hopefully she'll realise her mistake and accept a deposit instead.

Gosh, I am really lucky with my childminder then. She has been holding me a full time place for September and two for after school children. She hasn't charged me any retainer or deposit. Nothing.

If your prospective CM is a member of the NCMA, or uses their contracts then it actually says in the smallprint on those that a retainer can't be charged unless a place is available!

I would be really worried that this is the beginning of many more charges to come. As you say that £300 is 25% of the month fees for 4 days, that's £1200 a month for 4 days a week. And since 4 is 80% of 5, if that job was 5 days a weeks, it would have a value of £1500, which sounds like a bloody good rate for one space for a CM. CM's correct me if I'm wrong.

I do think she is taking you for a ride.

What else does the contract say?

Does she want sick pay?
holiday pay?
Do you pay in full for your hols?

I would be reviewing the finer details of that contract with a magnifying glass before I signed it.

And, also, are there other CMs in the area? What do they charge? Whould you have another option if she walked away?

Oh, and as for OFSTED says this and OFSTED says that... you are not obligated to take OFSTED's advice to the childminders. If OFSTED comes out and say "All CMs should try to get their client to dress their children in uniforms before arriving" Well that would be daft and no one would do it (I hope!).

When you use a childminder the document that governs her right and your responsibilities is the contract, not OFSTED and not the NCMA. She may have obligations to them, but you don't.

For what it's worth this is what I would agree to pay if I were employing a childminder:
1- Full pay if I don't show up whether on hols or child ill or whatever reason.
2- Bank hols. As a business owner (and not my employee!) I don't see that CM's are really entitled to this but I think it is common practice so okay I'd go with it.

I would not pay anything for her hols and I would give her sick pay.

Furthermore, I would ask her BEFORE I signed that contract if she is part of a network of childminders and if she would be able to arrange another childminder to look after my child in the even she is unavailable. And then you could just pay the other childminder what you normally pay her. I used to have a childminder who did this and I don't think I appreciated it at the time. I thought everyone did this. But, I have since learned that they do not.

Sorry, I meant to say I would not give her sick pay.

Strix, may i just point out that childminders are not employed by anyone.
As S/E people we set our own terms and conditions and its up to the parent whether they choose to use that minder - thus agreeing to T&C's.
It great that parents have an idea of what they do and don't want from a minder and that can make it easier to negotiate.

Not all minders are part of a network and there is NOTHING to say that back up minders can or will offer spaces if the original minder is off. I use back up minders - as I say a group of trusted colleagues, but I do stress to parents that just because I am off it is in no way guaranteed that any of those minders will have spaces available. Between us we have agreed that we will cover each others spaces if possible at the original agreement rates but that is a very personal decision between us and not all minders will offer this.

Would you demand of a nursery or school that they have alternative care arrangements?

The service that me and my colleagues offer is because we practise at a high level - our choice but at the end of the day providing we have given the appropriate notice of holiday or days of off then really its up to the parent to arrange their own cover. there are the occasional days off that happen at short notice and between us we will move heaven and earth to provide alternative care for the parents where possible. Parents MUST realise that this is a minor 'risk' that they run with minders however and it must be understood that it is not really the minders responsibility to provide or arranage alternative care.
At the end of the day - being self employed its in our own interests not to have days of here and there and you will often find us carrying on through thick and thin.

there are a lot of assumptions going on in this thread and the OP has not stated whether there is a space available now or not - and that would (or wouldn't) justify a retainer being charged.
Being charged a retainer - legitimatly is not 'greedy' it is good business sense.
It sounds like the OP's childmnder has perhaps got herself a bit befuddled with things.

I am well aware that a childminder is not an employee of the parent. I thought that was pretty clear in my post. I did use employ in one place where I shouldn't have and realised it after I hit post. So, I guess that what you are referring to. Sorry for the confusion.

The OP did say "However, my son will join at the exact time another child leaves" so I think it's clear that there is not justification for the retainer fee. But even after the OP has now brought this to her attention, she seems to be standing her ground.

You are absolutely right that Childminders have every legal right to negotiate whatever they want into the contract. I just want the OP to know she has the same right and does not have to agree to something just because OFSTED or the NCMA has advised their member to try to do so.

I did not say I would absolutely require a childminder to offer alternative care. I did suggest that OP ask about because if it's on offer it's certainly a plus. I wouldn't even look for it to go into the contract. But if I was interviewing a childminder and she said, "oh yes I get together with about 4 other CMs and we cover each others' hols whenever possible" then that cm would have big fat extra point in my book.

You are right that you may set your own rules, but parents may contract another childminder whose rules are more favourable.

Am confused now (doesn't take much in this heat!) - Strix - Persnickety - one and the same????

I have a child starting when another leaves but I still have one space that is currently unfilled and will still (to date) be unfilled when the other child starts - therefore I would be within my rights to charge a retainer (I haven't in this case as the time period is so short) but taken an advance that will secure the place and parents were absolute that they will not need the space till that date.
It has only been assumed that the minder doesn't have the spaces available and unless she is on here and can clarify the position or unless the OP knows for absolute certain that all spaces are filled, not one of us can say for certain whether the minder in question is wrong or not.

NCMA will only advise on good business sense and Ofsted will not advise anything of the sort. I have already stated that perhaps the minder has gotten confused somewhere along the line.

I totally agree with you that at the end of teh day its up to parents to search out the best deal and minder for them but I wanted to clarify a few misconceptions that appear to be cropping up about minders.