Help! CM's registration suspended suddenly for over-minding.

[notanumber]

Awful situtation - CM phoned yesterday to say that a spot check by Ofsted revealed that she was over numbers so her registration has been suspended pending the investigation.

DH and I need to have a long think about whether we want DS to go back to her (assuming that he can go back to her) after this is all over, but in the meantime, I wondered if you know:

a) what is the likely outcome of an investigation into over-minding? Does this normally lead to warning or a permanant cancellation of registration?

b) How long does such an investigation usually take? Are we talking weeks or months before (if) she is able to resume childminding?

Would be enormously grateful for your wisdom.

Didnt want to read and run,
Why not ring Ofsted, 08456 404040 and ask those questions?
I belive you can do this anonymously.
Then it will be from the horses mouth as it were.

According to Ofsted, the over-minding of too many children can be a signal of how to tell if someone is an unregistered childminder.

This must have been reported to Ofsted by someone, who may have had cause for concern.

If she is registered - have you seen her certificate station how many children she may mind - this includes any of her own under 8. How many children have you seen there? Remember, if she is overminding then her insurance is void.

I have heard of people occasionally overminding, Ofsted have visited, but they have not had to stop, just been warned to comply with registration and surprise visits made to check up.

This is what Ofsted say about visits other than inspections:

What other visits might be made?

We may visit at other times, for example:

to check on actions given at an inspection
to consider a request to vary the conditions of your registration

because something about your registration has changed, for example you have moved house

because we have received a complaint from a parent or other person that raises concerns about whether you meet the requirements for registration - most likely

You do not receive a report from these visits. You will receive a letter that sets out the outcome of the visit. This may include actions and/or recommendations to bring about improvement.

Following a visit arising from concerns we will tell you about any enforcement action we intend to take. In extreme cases this may include prosecution and/or cancellation of your registration. Where necessary, we may issue a notice of intention to vary, add or remove conditions applying to your registration or to cancel registration. You have the right to object or appeal against any notice that we issue. We publish the outcomes of all investigations where we, or you, take action to ensure you meet requirements.

The best thing to do is ring NCMA helpline, parents are welcome to make enquiries and seek advice, the number is 0845 880 0044

Ofsted number is now 0300 123 1231

Majafa, if you are a cm, make sure you have the upto date one in your files or parents poster

notanumber, also meant to hear, sorry to hear about your problem, this probably causes a lot of distress and anxiety

Unless they felt that there were some serious safety concerns I imagine they'll rap her on the knuckles, make her jump through a few hoops and then let her carry on. They really don't want to lose any childminders when there's already a shortage.

I would ask for an explanation form her before sending my child back there. She would have invalidated her insurance by being over numbers.

Sorry I don't know how long it would usually atake but I'm not sure Ofsted would give you any idea either - they can be quite cagey.

My ex-CM was found to over numbers but she was just told to sort it out. Her registration was not suspended and ofsted didn't really seem that bothered as long as she agreed to sort it out.

I suspect there is slighly more to this.

how many chidren did she have?

Ooops, Thanx Alibubbles, I took it from my certificate!!
I dont think Ive received a new parent poster with that on will chase that up.

Unusual (in my experience), to incur instant suspension. This suggests there were other reasons and not just apparently being over on numbers.

I tend to agree with mudleduck I also know of a couple that wer over numbers occassionally, this was picked up and they were told not to do it again, or advised to apply for a variation. They wern't suspended, I imagine that their were other breaches which when taken together was enough to suspend.

Suspension is a very serious matter, Ofsted inspectors have to thoroughly justify their reasons, and I also believe that they have to go through to a line manager for confirmation as well. I would try and delve a little deeper if I were you before making decisions.

But also bare in mind that adult:child ratios are a basic and fundamental part of registration, if they are not been adhered too and disregarded then what else isn't being done. Good point also that Al1son made about her Insurance being invalid.

We have a childminder in our town who is known for overminding among other things. She has been graded unsatisfactory in the past, regraded as satisfactory , so thereforer allowed to continue. However it is thought she is back to doing it incorrectly & it is now a matter of time before she is caught again. I suspect that this time she wouldn't be given a second chance, I hope this isn't your minder, but as said earlier it sounds like more than being over numbers if she has been suspended, and yes it can take weeks/months to sort, especially if the police get involved in ant way.

" If she is registered - have you seen her certificate station how many children she may mind - this includes any of her own under 8."

Sorry to be pedantic Alibubbles, but the numbers on her certificate will not include her own children under eight (assuming she is in England) so she will be allowed to care for the number shown on her certificate, plus any children of her own under eight, and of course any over eight.

Not read the whole thread but just wanted to say being suspended is serious and I'd be surprised if it's to do with her overminding alone!

Last year a malicious complaint was made about me and 3 things mentioned, one being drugs so a SERIOUS complaint (obviously TOTAL fiction!)! I was NOT suspended for this so I doubt a CM could be for just being over their numbers (not saying it's not serious to be overminding, just that if you compare to what my complaint was about!).

Complaints are given category numbers based on how serious they are. I'd be interested in knowing what category this was given. Tbh if it was me, I'd be phoning Ofsted and checking what the complaint was. The childminder would not be told you called.

Anyway, really sorry this has happened, you must be stressed not having childcare now

I think the inspection took place as a result of a complaint.... The CM implied that a parent had a grudge about contractual issues but I'm fairly sure that Ofsted don't involve themselves in that area so think that maybe the complaint was about the over-minding. I think (according to her latest Ofsted on the internet) that she's allowed 6 children, which means she must have had at least seven. This seems like a lot.

I rang Ofsted but they said that they can't tell me anything due to dada protection.

It's very difficult as we only have the CM's version of what has happened, and obviously she might not be telling us the whole truth.

We're really very stressed out by the whole thing. We've been basically happy with her up until now so don't want to leap to "no smoke without fire" conclusions unfairly, but equally our son is our first priority and if Ofsted think that the matter warrents a registration suspension then we obviously have concerns about leaving him in her care.

Of course, our immediate problem is that we've got no bloody childcare so DH and I are having to look after him between us with annual leave etc which work is not very impressed by.

minderjinx the number of under 5's ( Early Years) you can mind is normally 3, if you have any of your own, that number is taken into account. So if you have your own 2 year old, you look after 2 other under 5's, one who may be under one and another under 5. You may also have 3 over 5 but under 8 and any number of over 8's as long of the care of the other children is not compromised.

When your own child turns 5, or is n education for 10 sessions or more, they come out of theat group and go into the next, reducing your over 5's but under 8's group.

I am not sure if what you are saying is that you can have your own under 5's and an additional 3 under 5. if so, that is incorrect.

many people have been confused about this and always think that their own children do not count in their numbers, they do.A long time ago, 25 years, when I started minding and it was Social Services, they weren't as strict, but then you only needed a fridge and a fence!

I will find it on the Ofsted website somewhere for you, if you wish.

Ali - I think she was refering to the bit where you said our own children are included on the certificate. I think you meant our own children are taken into account on the certificate

Suspension is because Ofsted consider there is a likely risk of harm to children; for overminding to be that serious it would have to be by a very large number of children so she was effectively neglecting them and children were at physical risk of harm - suspension is more often linked to things like safeguarding allegations against the Cm or a member of her family/household, some sort of criminal accusation or the physical safety of the premises.

As a parent you should get a letter from Ofsted in a few days confirming the suspension but that would only give very basic facts like "because there is a risk of harm". The Cm will have received a suspension notice which is a legal document she should display, and possibly a more detailed copy which would give the full reasons eg. "because of evidence suggesting X, Y and Z which we need to investigate".

apologies if I have misinterpreted!

I'm really confused now.

I have rung Ofsted again - just for general info - and they have said that there is NO suspension on her registration.

I asked whether this is because it was still be processed (only happened yesterday, so maybe paperwork still had to be submitted or something) but they were very clear that the suspension notice would have been flagged up immediately.

I have no idea what is going on. I don't know why CM would say registration has been suspended when it hasn't. It's not because she doesn't want to look after DS - she has clearly said that she intends to set up as a nanny (working from someone else's home) until the investigation is over and that she would like to care for DS from there.

I just can't make head nor tail of this and am starting to become quite worried.

You might do better if you email Ofsted setting out clearly what questions you have - explaining that you don't want the personal details about your Cm and whatever is alleged to have happened, but you just want it confirmed whether she is suspended or has for some reason been told she can't care for children from her house (which would be weird, but you never know). Emphasise that you are a parent of a child in her care and have got contradictory messages and you just want to be clear where things stand re your childcare.

Worse case senario is they don't respond for a while and it might all get explained by then anyway, but you might find the right person in the organisation who can call you and explain things.

Email is [email protected] and include your Cm's registration number or the first line of her address for clarity.

I think we need a Mnetter expert for this one, (which isnt me BTW) but my initial thoughts on your last post re: working as a nanny are

1. Can she legally do that if she is suspended? suspension as has already been said is for something pretty serious, their may be conditions attached.

1. If she can nanny from someone elses house, can she acyually have your child their as well, do you want your child somewhere you don't know, with people you don't know. Or for that matter do these people want your child their.

1. Has she just spouted a load of rubbish about being suspended, because she's been offered a chushty job and doesn't want to offend you?

If a provider is suspended it flags up straight away, I would be 99% certain that if Ofsted reckon she hasn't been then she's telling porkies. And as numerous posters have mentioned being over numbers, although very naughty, isn't reason in itself to be suspended IYSWIM.

If I were in your place I would forget all about this CM, either way I wouldn't want my child back their, and find alternative care.

apologies for shocking grammer and sp

My childminder was suspended by OFSTED following an accusation. The suspension was effective immediately, I had to leave work to collect my daughter. OFSTED got a letter to me the next day, even though it was just before Christmas.

The police were involved and despite the police clearing her in two weeks OFSTED took six weeks to unsuspend her and then another two weeks for them to let me know.

She wouldn't even let me visit her in her house during the suspension period in case OFSTED were watching her.

I spoke to OFSTED on the phone a number of times and they were very unhelpful. I wanted to complain about the way they handled the situation but the childminder asked me not to as she was due an inspection.

She was cleared completely and then got outstanding on her inspection.

Sorry that's a bit long but it sounds like your childminder is not telling you everything.

It does not make sense to me.

CM phoned yesterday to say that a spot check by Ofsted revealed that she was over numbers so her registration has been suspended pending the investigation.

So when was she suspended - yesterday, the day before? How come you haven't had notification from Ofsted?

DH and I need to have a long think about whether we want DS to go back to her

Why would you need to have a long think about it, if you consider her to be innocent? As a user of her service you have been quite happy until now... the regulator can make mistakes... so surely you view your CM as being innocent, until proved otherwise? Or is there more to it? Have there been past issues?

I have rung Ofsted again - just for general info - and they have said that there is NO suspension on her registration.

Yet it supposedly happened yesterday (or before)... so Ofsted's computer system would be flagging it today. Also you haven't had any official notification from Ofsted... such as a letter.

It's not because she doesn't want to look after DS - she has clearly said that she intends to set up as a nanny (working from someone else's home) until the investigation is over and that she would like to care for DS from there.

When did she say that... also are you aware of how that changes your relationship - a nanny is usually an Employee, whereas a childminder is Self-Employed. A nanny share between two families is possible... but the two families need to know each other and agree contracts with each other and the nanny. Your Childminder can't care for more than two families at the same time as a nanny (of which the home must belong to one of the families) - otherwise they would be a childminder again under English childcare legislation (Childcare Act 2006).

Have you spoken with the CM about this today? Ask them for the Childcare Inspectors Name and phone number (if they have it). If they don't have the number, you can phone Ofsted's helpline and request that a message is passed on to the inspector as a matter of urgency and request that the inspector calls you.

I am agreeing with the others that it sounds as though you are not being told everything. I feel you really need to speak with your CM and get to the bottom of things.

Meanwhile, look around for alternative care. Contact your local Families Information Service for a list of childminders, nurseries, registered nannies etc.

If they are suspended then the suspension period is 6 weeks initially. See Ofsted: CIE Powers Thresholds

If a notice of suspension has been issued, then it must be Displayed - so how about visiting your Childminder to see if they do have it displayed.

CR15.1

• display the certificate of registration in the premises on which childcare is provided
• display any notice of suspension of registration.

Source: Requirements for the Childcare Register

Source: Ofsted: Suspension

When we suspend a registration, we tell the parents and carers whose children are cared for by that provider what we have done. If possible, we give the reasons for our decision to suspend registration. Sometimes we cannot give the reasons if they include personal information. We also tell parents and carers when we end the suspension.