Help! CM's registration suspended suddenly for over-minding.

[notanumber]

Awful situtation - CM phoned yesterday to say that a spot check by Ofsted revealed that she was over numbers so her registration has been suspended pending the investigation.

DH and I need to have a long think about whether we want DS to go back to her (assuming that he can go back to her) after this is all over, but in the meantime, I wondered if you know:

a) what is the likely outcome of an investigation into over-minding? Does this normally lead to warning or a permanant cancellation of registration?

b) How long does such an investigation usually take? Are we talking weeks or months before (if) she is able to resume childminding?

Would be enormously grateful for your wisdom.

Oh God, this is hust sounding fishier and fishier. I just can't understand it - why would she claim to have been suspended when she hasn't been?

Very grateful for the info on the rules around nannying.

She said last night that one of the other mindee's parents have offered their house as a base to nanny from, but if she can only have that child (who is school age so it's not full time) plus DS who is only 2 days a week then this cannot be a financially viable option for her, can it?

CM said that the inspector told her that she absolutely could not continue to childmind but that she could nanny... this now sounds unlikely, doesn't it?

Also, apparantly when the CM asked for the inspector's name she refused to give it on the grounds that she had given it at the door (which CM had forgotten) and said that CM would not be able to contact her or talk to her about the investigation so she did not need to give her that information. Again, this sounds odd, doesn't it?

A suspended childminder would be allowed to care for children in a way that isn't classed as childminding eg. nannying, having a child for less than two hours, or for no payment, because that doesn't require compulsory registration so Ofsted can't physically stop someone from doing it (although it doesn't look great to the police or other agencies if there is more serious criminal/safeguarding stuff going on).

Sorry but it sounds quite far-fetched that an Ofsted Inspector would refuse to give their name on the grounds that they've already told someone once! They have to carry name badges around with them, and there is no rational reason why they would refuse to give their name since the Cm or anyone else could always ask Ofsted by phone or email who came to see them and even have a copy of the notes they took during the visit/inspection!

Have you emailed Ofsted? The people who answer the phones at the contact centre can deal with basic questions but they aren't experts about compliance/enforcement matters, and are only reading off what they can see on the computer. They won't be the inspector or compliance team staff who are actually dealing with this. An email is much more likely to go to someone who can give you a more helpful answer.

From what you've said, if Ofsted are saying she's not suspended but your Cm is saying she is, then either the Cm is confused and misunderstood what Ofsted said (it would be pretty stressful having an unexpected visit and allegations of X and Y put to her) or she's being enconomical with the truth for some reason. This is all a bit of a mess but I hope it gets sorted out for you soon.

She said last night that one of the other mindee's parents have offered their house as a base to nanny from, but if she can only have that child (who is school age so it's not full time) plus DS who is only 2 days a week then this cannot be a financially viable option for her, can it?

No, it does not sound financially viable. In theory she could care for two families children at the same time... but any more than that and it will breach the Childcare Act 2006 as I understand it. So may be possible to care for family A's child just after school... family B's child just during school time... family c child all day. So at no point are there more than two families children at the home at any given time. Messy though.
Nannying isn't regulated like childminding... so no regulator may check up - however you can't then use Tax Credits or Childcare Vouchers to part-pay your employee.
To nanny and be able to accept payment via vouchers/tax credits, they would need to register with Ofsted on the voluntary childcare register.

Also, apparantly when the CM asked for the inspector's name she refused to give it on the grounds that she had given it at the door (which CM had forgotten) and said that CM would not be able to contact her or talk to her about the investigation so she did not need to give her that information. Again, this sounds odd, doesn't it?

I would say that does sound very odd... as surely there would be a name on the suspension paperwork. Someone has to have authorised the suspension.

Not sure if you will ever get to the bottom of this one. Probably best just to move on to using someone else.

Was she definitely a registered cm in the first place??? Reading between the lines I am wonderingif she was unregistered and someone has reported her to Ofsted - they have turned up to check the claims and have shut her down?

Just a thought

If calling Ofsted, use 0300 123 4666 and ask to speak to someone in Compliance.
When e-mailing, request that the Compliance Team get back to you.

Can you visit the CM and request to see the suspension notification?

nick - from my previous and probably-shouldn't-talk-about-it experience, suspension notices were signed by a director who had nothing to do with individual cases, but would include a name and direct contact number for a "case owner" who was someone in the compliance team. That might or might not be the visiting inspector.

squirrel42 - that makes sense... as someone senior would need to authorise the suspension - and they would not want to deal with all requests for info thus providing a contact number for the "case owner".

So if notanumber visits the CM, then they could get the number of the "case owner".

Actually, scrap that - as thinking it through, when op called Ofsted they would have just stated that she was not on their registered cm list

If the Cm isn't talking b*llocks she should be perfectly happy to show the suspension notice to any parent who asks to see it, since she's supposed to be displaying it anyway. Also most Cms who have been accused of something they say they didn't do should also be perfectly happy to give parents the (accurate) details of what happened so the parents could then write to Ofsted in support of her!

Unfortunately Ofsted aren't able to communicate much about complaints and investigations to parents (since they regulate according to legal standards and don't technically have a complaint investigation service); usually it's left up to the Cm to keep details in their complaints records which parents should be allowed to see, only only details of "qualifying" complaints where enforcement action is taken appear on the website next to inspection reports. That doesn't happen until the investigation is over though. Being notified that their Cm is suspended is about as much contact as Ofsted usually have with parents, unless they are the particular people who made the complaint. Our friend Data Protection usually prevents much detail being given out - which is fair enough since most people don't want possibly malicious allegations being broadcast to all and sundry, but it does cause confusion at times like this.

Has your CM given you contact details of other minders they know who may be able to take your DS on a temporary basis?

Thank you all for your very sound advice.

DH have written an email to CM outlining all of our concerns and asking her if she can clear up all the inconsistancies.

To be honest, I'm not sure what the explanation can be for all this but on the other hand it all just sounds so totally mad that there must be an explanation.

Do come back and let us know the outcome (even better if some info about what actually turns out to be the situation... though keep confidentiality in mind, don't want the CM to be identified).

Just a slightly mad thought. as OFSTED don't seem to know about the suspension, and she couldn't get the name; maybe some nutter with a grudge pretended to be from OFSTED to try and get her to close down. It's amazing some of the tales of disgruntled neighbours etc. you hear about.

Moogster1a - that was what I was thinking!!

This sounds VERY odd. From reading the thread, my guesses would be either:

• The CM is lying totally, which I would find very worrying as what the hell is she covering up to actually want people to think she was suspended when she wasn't!? I would hate to be suspended, and if I was, I would dread telling people and be really ashamed (if I was guilty!) so why on earth would anybody want to lie like that??

OR

• As Moogster1a said somebody pretended to be Ofsted. Realistically, when ofsted turn up at your door, even when planned, you altomatically get nervous, allowing you to not pick up on details you would if watching from an outsiders view. Especially if it was an unexpected visit, and she was overminding. I would think she was in panic mode as soon as she opened the door so wouldn't of checked ID etc very well.

An inspector from Ofsted wouldn't refuse to give their name. Thats rediculous. They have to show ID before entering your house, and would have that on them at all times. Alarm bells ringing here. And if its not on their system - then thats giving more reason to think its not really true.

I think you need to ask her if you can see her paperwork from Ofsted about it asap. If she has made this all up then you need to know why and Ofsted need to investigate I think - thats my instint anyway.

And if somebody has impersonated ofsted, then they definatly need to know about it.

Random thought. If you do speak to the CM and she thinks it might be somebody pretending to be ofsted - ask her if they had a laptop...IME they always seem to have a laptop with them so they have all your details etc in front of them and everything goes straight on their system.

Hiya Notanumber- if your in L37 area I can look after your lo in the interim ! Probably not but your CM should have backup which you can use or just go on the gov site and get a list of local childminders. this gives you and your hubby your leave back. Sounds like either way something is amiss and probably not the best place for your lo despite how happy you've been. Good luck and remember its her/his misdemeanour not yours !!

What is the difference in nannying and childminding? I am a CM and have been poodling along nicely over the years but then there was the myth that all CM's had to have a Level 3 qualification by 2010 so I quickly signed up for the Diploma in Homebased Childcare and then came EYFS which I have embraced but dont enjoy and the latest requirement is being registered with the Food Standards Agency which to me really is a step too far. Now I am thinking of nannying in the hope that it will be less intrusive to my home but not sure what nanny's are required to fulfil - surely not EYFS? any help gratefully received

Terrimum, Nannys work at the childs home, childminders work in their own home.

No nannies do not have to follow EYFS, you can register with Ofsted if you want (this will enable the parents to claim TC)

If you register with Ofsted you need insurance, paediatric first aid and a qualification that covers the common core skills. We don't have to follow EYFS, we don't need to do risk assessments, we don't need to have 101 policies and 101 permission forms to be signed, we don't have to have inspections like a cm does - we may be inspected but really all a nannies inspection involves is seeing our certificates of the above criteria required for registration and asking a few questions to make sure we are aware of child protection procedures.