So I asked the CM why DD's cardigan smelled of smoke....

[whattheheck]

....thanks to excellent advice given earlier.
CM replied straightaway not defensive or anything.
Says that friend she goes to visit on Tues is a smoker but doesn't smoke in front of kids, but had picked up DD because DD was scared of a dog said friend was looking after, and that's how her cardigan came to smell of smoke.
So it's good that she explained...but in role of PFB-Mumzilla I'm now worrying about DD going to a smoker's house once a week. I'm not sure that's great from a passive smoking point of view even if she's not smoking in front of her. Or am I being really precious now?
This woman sounds like a really good friend of CM's. She goes there every week. I just had no idea til today she was a smoker.

You do know about the dangers of that don't you Can'tthink?

It's all complete and utter bonkers. My mother and probably thousands others used to smoke whilst she was breastfeeding. They didn't know better in those days granted. But for goodness sake, get a grip and get a life! We all try our best to keep our babies/children away from smoke, but it's still legal and whilst it is, there will be times that they come into contact with it.

So - what do I do? Divorce my husband because he smokes? Most of the time he wears a jacket outside, but coming into the summer months, he probably won't. Quite frankly, it's just the way life is.

I think this is all very OTT a child minder is a very qualified person who cares for a child -some in different ways to others but lets be honest the level of care you are expecting is from a nanny.

As an NNEB if I were to choose childcare I think id bite the hand off an older nanna type childminder - its lovely that a child can have such 'grounding' and be nurtured 1-1,the rates childminders earn often mean they are working for less than minimum wage .

Its all very well to want experiences and facilities for your child and I too was once one of those mums eagerly pushing away for my dc .....then middle ds got M.E and I really think that he was effectively 'burnt out' from too much stress too young.

I have a theory that I share with the paed and my gp - we call it the sanpit theory- let the children be children and learn as they are ready.

CTFN...you ask him to refrain from covering your dd in smoke and how many less children die of cot death since this research about smoking? I for one had a cousin who died at three months whose mother smoked....

Quite frankly you are willing to take risks with your babies health that I wouldn't.

Im with NotNickGriffinsChick here. It's all very OTT.

Perhaps the CM's trip to her frineds who may have had a dog and may/may not have smoked in front of the child is indicative of lots of other things and standards that the OP may not want fro her dd.....plus it's hard enough leaving your baby, most that do do so in the complete belief and security that it's the best place for their child.

But if she thought that Posie then why post half the story?

If other things were niggling and then this happened surely youd just think 'camels back-straw and then give the CM notice?>

Im not being argumentative here but its hard leaving dc in the first place and I know its a guilt thing we all carry but lets not blame it all on the CM.

I wouldn't care who thinks it's "OTT" tbh. OP, you're not happy with your child being around a smokey home once per week while the cm socialises. That's all that matters.

If I were you, I'd be finding another cm. her loss. Really. You'll find better care. Definitely. If she doesn't do what you'd like, you don't have to use her services and certainly shouldn't pay her for it.

Well put Star .

I actually think that she might be telling the truth about her friend's smokey smell rubbing off when she picked your DD up. DP and I don't smoke ourselves but his cousin and DP do. They don't smoke in their own house or anywhere where their children may go but after smoking they both stink! They stayed with us one New Year and although they didn't smoke in the house, only outside, their smell rubbed off onto the sofas and the house stank after they left!

Exactly right. Some people are obviously cool with the smoking thing, but sounds like you aren't.

I didn't want to change childminders as I liked the one I had and the thought of looking for another one was not fun, but my baby smelling of smoke was not acceptable to me. New childminder is just lovely and baby is really happy with her & the other kids and...she doesn't smell of smoke (or have it in her lungs presumably). Everybody is happy

I imagine a nanna type CM is probably lovely, chilled out and experienced, but I would want to see some evidence of children's activities being possible in her house. Does she have age appropriate toys and equipment? Does she have painting stuff, play-doh, crafty bits? Yes, you can do all these things at groups, but children like to do them every day, and I think you could expect her to be able to.

My mum has my DSs at her house probably once every two months. She has all of these things for those occasional visits. She was and would still be a fantastic CM, although she does smoke (outside).

Nanna type CM should be lovely, but that's just a generalisation really. Older people can be lazy, thoughtless and careless too Doesn't matter what age she is, if you don't like what she is doing.

I also think you need you start to look for another CM. This one isn't the only one in the world and you will find another one you are 100% happy with. You will then realise that this current CM is not all that.

Wow! Some real assumptions being made here, aren't there?

The OP said, in her post at 12.14, that she had the impression the friend was another childminder but wasn't sure because of the smoking.
It's perfectly possible she's a childminder. So long as she doesn't smoke in front of the children, she's within the law.

I often go to childminder friends' homes and they come to me. We do activities for larger groups and the kids socialise - a bit like a mini playgroup.

Doesn't matter if it's "in the law" or not. If the OP is unhappy with her child there, she can remove her, easy as that. There are (better) cms out there who don't bring their kids around smoker's houses (even if they smoke outside). I wouldn't ever pay someone with whom I was unhappy.

Of course she can. I'm replying to the assumptions that this is a bad, lazy childminder who drags her mindees over to her friend's house while she has a coffee and a chat, completely ignoring her charges.

as cm's were not allowed to smoke or be around someone smoking/just smoked with the children..thats ofsted's rules..fair enough if other lady WASNT/HADNT and it had passed on via her smoky clothes but i personally wouldnt want my dd coming home distinctivly smelling of smoke, from which was supposedly just rubbed off onto her from someone elses clothes a good few hours ago?

Did anyone see the programme about Alder Hey Hospital? It was the one where preschoolers were having their teeth removed because they ate too many sweets. The nurse was telling the parents of the children with hearing impairments that their smoking was affecting the children even though they smoked outside, because the smoke clung to them for ages afterwards.

I'm not assuming she's a bad or lazy childminder - but if it was my child I'd want to know more about where they were going and who they were seeing.

Wow this has moved on.

I think that there's several schools of thought, all perfectly valid and with varying degrees of extremism.

One is the 'I want a proactive childminder who is very child-centred and only does child-focused activites', another is 'I like a relaxed environment for my child and am not bothered about whether they spend their day going for coffee with friends'. My personal view is whilst a 'Nana-type' CM is lovely I would want my DC to have access to activities, which it doesn't sound like this CM is providing.

Then there's the 'I want my child kept completely away from smoke' through 'as much as humanly possible' to 'within the letter or the law'. I wouldn't want my DCs intentionally exposed to smoke, which is what you're doing if you're a CM taking a mindee to a smoker friend's house. My DH used to smoke when I was nanny - I hated it because it did rub off onto me and I was absolutely scrupulous about making sure it didn't come into contact with my charges. There's no way you can control everything but some people are more laissez-faire in their attitude than I. As your CM is SE you can't dictate what she does. You can, as a parent paying for a service, request that she doesn't do certain things with your DD. She's entitled to refuse to change the way she does things, your're entitled to remove your DD.

I'd also be suspicious about the length of contact - a quick pick-up-to-get-away-from-the-dog isn't going to leave a pronounced smoky smell on a cardigan. An extended cuddle would and whilst I wouldn't mind my DC having cuddles with CMs friends in principle I wouldn't be too happy with smoking friends doing that and I'd have thought the CM might be a bit more sensitive about that too.

The dog was present so isn't out of the equation, that would also annoy me. Not so much the friend looking after the dog but the fact it wasn't secured and the fact the CM didn't think to mention it.

Having said all of that if you haven't told your CM what your views are then she isn't going to know and if this thread has revealed anything it's that different people have different standards.

Frakkin thanks for summing up! This has all gone a bit way more than I originally thought when I posted.
I
notnickgriffinschick I am not trying to blame a childminder for my decision to go back to work.

I never had a conversation about smoking with CM because - naively - I just assumed that wouldn't happen. Obviously that was my inexperience. In the same way I never thought about dogs. As Frakkin points out me and CM have thus never had that conversation so how could she know?

I feel really upset if my OP has been taken as an attack in some way on CMs in general and that i don't realise they do a terrific job. I've said that my child loves her CM. I am just not very good at this sort of thing and wanted to gauge whether it was fair to say I wasn't happy about her coming back smelling of smoke/being in a smokers' house. I realise that I may be being oversensitive so wanted to ask other people's opinions.

my daughter also comes back from her dads STINKING VERY STRONGLY of smoke, he does not smoke when she is there, but because he does when she isnt it really really smells bad, even her hair stinks, its in his sofa

OP, I didn't read your post as an attack on childminders at all. It was some of the replies that, to me, seemed to be making some unfounded assumptions about your childminder and her friend.
Don't feel upset. She's your child: you have a right to know where she is and to voice concerns if you're not happy.