So I asked the CM why DD's cardigan smelled of smoke....

[whattheheck]

....thanks to excellent advice given earlier.
CM replied straightaway not defensive or anything.
Says that friend she goes to visit on Tues is a smoker but doesn't smoke in front of kids, but had picked up DD because DD was scared of a dog said friend was looking after, and that's how her cardigan came to smell of smoke.
So it's good that she explained...but in role of PFB-Mumzilla I'm now worrying about DD going to a smoker's house once a week. I'm not sure that's great from a passive smoking point of view even if she's not smoking in front of her. Or am I being really precious now?
This woman sounds like a really good friend of CM's. She goes there every week. I just had no idea til today she was a smoker.

I wouldn't be happy with this as the visits to this friend seem to be about the childminder and not your DD.
Did she mention the incident with the dog? I'd be cross over that too if my child had been scared in the company of the childminder and she didn't mention it to me, I'd wonder what else she had been keeping to herself.

I also don't believe your DD cardy would smell after being picked up especially if she goes regularly. IMO either you childminder of her friend smoked in front of your DD.

Wow CityChildminder, I hope your attitude isn't typical of childminders

Being self-employed doesn't mean that you can be slovenly and selfish and have no basic standards

i'm not sure what the cm is doing wrong here. She is visting a friend (maybe friend has child too/cares for children?) who is a smoker who doesn't smoke in front of the children and has a small dog. Sorry i just don't see the problem personally. Staff in nurseries/schools smoke - it's no different imo

Sounds like a very far fetched reason to smell of smoke

I'm afraid I couldn't trust someone who explained it in this way, because it sounds so implausible - and anyway, what was she doing taking your kid somewhre there was a scary dog?

Time to change CM I think.

Childminder is visiting a friend and SAYS that the friend doesn't smoke in front of the children - I don't believe her.

CM should have a professional ethic IMO - she is being paid to work with this child during working hours and should be doing things with the child in mind, not going about her daily business but with a dc in tow

Citychildminder - yes we are self employed but she most certainly CAN 'ask' about not going. She just can't 'tell her'. And yes, I agree about possibility of coming into to contact at school but she won't be paying them for a service. I meet up with friends but those are friends with children and there are benefits to the children I'm 'paid' to look after. And the dog thing......that's even worse tbh. I have one cm friend I visit on occasion who has dogs but I only go there as I know the dogs are kept in a separate area and the children can't get to them. We have to do risk assessments for wherever we go and a loose dog should come into consideration. I (like many) have a pet policy and it includes coming into contact with other animals.

Anyway, that aside, what is this cm like in general?

What is a Child Minder? Is it someone who just continues their normal life and children tag along? Or are they supposed to entertain a child and do the best thing for the child? Or a generous mix?

Only I would like to think if I was paying someone to look after my child that wouldn't include, on their one day a week, a trip to sit and chat with a friend unless she had children/lived on a farm etc etc.

Staff in schools and nurseries don't smoke in front of children and they certainly wouldn't have children in a room where they had been smoking.

i dont think the dog is usually there as did u not mention the friend was only watching it so this usually wouldnt b a problem so take the dog out of the situation. your child has been going for 3 months and has never smelled b4 so this may just be a one off . my daughters clothes stink when shes been to her grans as the her gran cuddles her and it passes on to her.
i have taken minded children to friends houses who have children for lunch or just to play then sometimes friends come to mine. i have also taken children to my grans and they loved it as it was an older person and treated them like my daughter

The house/clothes of the friend would have to be minging to rub off on your child's clothing. Whether the smoking was happening in front of her or not.

Disgusting.

As a parent would not be happy with the whole situation. I'm not paying a childminder to socialise but to look after my child. I would expect the whole day to be geared towards teaching and looking after her. I understand that every now and then a childminder may want to visit a friend but doing this every week while I pay her is a bit too much. Unless like others mentioned she has something exciting for children like farm or instruments. As to smoking I have very strong views and it's a big no-no. For your child to have a smelly cardigan but not the jacket she must have been smoking while they were there probably not in front of them but still I don't think it's acceptable and your CM should make sure she avoids such situations. I don't know about others but even in a bus stop situation I move my children away from smokers to make sure they do not breathe it in and if there is no clean air because of the number of smokers I make a fuss and ask them to move.

Mind you I tend to get on with everyday stuff but with a child tagging along.

It is not very child centred here. but then I am just, well, a parent...

If the dog was a one off I'm afraid I'd have said to friend 'sorry, I'll come next week when the dog isn't here'.

What does she do with the children when they visit her friend, is it to do a joint activity or a coffee and a chat. I only ask as I wouldn't visit friends while working unless it was another minder and we wanted to do something together.
I would be miffed as a parent if my child who I was paying someone to look after was being taken to someones house that smoked and had a strange dog in the house.
I also think she's not telling the truth as no way would clothes smell from just being picked up.
I would start to look elsewhere and in the meantime ask a bit more about their plans for the week ahead, what groups she plans to visit, activities she plans on doing, any observations she has recently done, what outdoor activities and experiences your child will be doing. This should all be written down somewhere, if not ask that she puts it in her daily diary, thats what you are paying for.

I'd ask the cm not to go. If she said no, I'd give notice and not send dc again. Even if she's great in other ways, if this is something that really concerns you, get a new cm. I would not be happy about this at all.

Sure, cms can do whatever they want to do as they employ themselves and they have the rights to blah-de-blah but no professional cm is going to put kids in that situation. I am not generally one to go in all guns blazing or anything but this would seriously piss me right off.

Especially because one cuddle from a smoker who "didn't smoke around the child" would NOT make her smell of smoke at bathtime later that evening. Nope. Sorry. Impossible. Maybe it's the house that smells... even more reason she shouldn't be going there with kids. Does she think she doesn't have to be professional just because she's "self employed"? ffs.

You are a bit sensitive about it, but you're her mother. If you don't like the way things are being done, remove her. There are plenty of nurseries and cms out there.

I used to be a childminder and am also a parent and I would not be happy with this situation. This childminder is apparently going about her own social routine from before she started childminding, with mindee in tow, to a house with a smoker and a dog which is loose and mindee is scared of. This kind of thing gives childminders a bad name.

The visiting a friend or neighbour regularly can be fine for a cm to do as, as others have pointed out it can be a pleasant social learning experience but in this case I don't think it is. I feel it is more to do with the childminder's own needs than your DD's.

I wouldn't be happy about my child going into a smoky environment once a week either. I reckon cm's friend's standards have now relaxed and she has this week smoked in the presence of your DD, why else would you not ave noticed this smell before now?? Lies are usually too detailed, cm's explanation seems a bit off IMO.

If I were you OP I would start to look into other cms/ childcare options in your area...

agree silverlining about the lie being very detailed.

Change cms - her loss, not yours.

It's fair to ask the CM not to do things or say what you're not happy about - same as you could ask a nursery to change things. They might not do it, but you can ask!

It seems a bit unlikely to me too that the cardi would still smell of smoke hours after being touched by a smoker... My DP smokes, but only ever outside, and although he smells after smoking, I don't and neither does the flat.

As for visiting friends - as a nanny I would visit friends, but only nanny/mum friends with similar aged children who enjoyed playing together. I wouldn't just pop round to my mum's or some friend from school. I think there's a balance between an activity that is for both the adult and child, and one for the adult that the child just tags along to.

sounds well thought out to me, but i may be completely wrong?..with reg to visiting friend, i dont think she should do this regulaly if/when shes working unless she has children similar age herself...i DO visit my own mum occasionally with the children, but as my mums older and obv a nana, the children enjoy visiting her now and again (she lives near park and we'd call in to eat our picnic and she always had icecreams etc for the little uns when it was warm), she has toys for dd and a few for the younger ones if we visit and the parents are very happy with this as i tell them all what we've been doing, some of the children call her nana themselves LOL..anyway..off tangent..sometimes friends family visits are a positive thing, but sounds like this friend sits and smokes and has animals of which she doesnt know their temperment..id be concerned.good luck

Thanks everyone for this. I'm a first time mum who has never employed a childminder before so I am confused about what I can/can't expect from a CM.
Obviously I'd love a CM who took my DD to farms etc, but I presumed that was wishing for the stars. CM, who is old hand been doing this for 20 years etc, takes DD to the park and to playgroups.
I'd love her to do more activities with her but I wasn't sure what I could ask her to do. DD (now 14 months)does seem very happy with her, so I have kept quiet over the past 3 months about asking if it was possible to go to different places (which I would be willing to pay for)
In the past I presumed/got the impression that her friend was also a CM but if she is a smoker I am now not so sure.
CityChildminder I take your point exactly that I cannot monitor who exactly my child comes into contact with, or dictate to my CM what she does or does not do.
All I am asking is what is reasonable for a parent to suggest/ask a CM to do or not to do, and what would other people think is OK, because as I say I am really new to this and not wanting to be unreasonable.
I am not trying to keep her in some sort of bubble, just a mother who is trying desperately to feel that I'm giving my child as good a situation as I can.

All childminders are different and some are more active, do lots of activities in and out of the home, trips outs, etc, some are more home based only and others somewhere in between.

It sounds to me like your childminder is more the kind of cm who looks after mindees in the way a relative would, visiting friends and going to playgroups where she can sit with a cuppa (wild assumption I know). Does she let your DD have supervised access to paint, sand, water play, play doh, etc? I did allow mindees your DD's age access to things like this, and think most minders on here would...

It really depends what you want in a cm, but I suspect if you want more doing with your DD you will have to look for a new one, I can't see your cm changing her ways after 20years. Also, as a longstanding cm why does she only have one mindee? A long standing cm with a good reputation would be a little busier wouldn't they??? They are around here!

She only has one mindee because she had taken 3 months off last year after her last 2 mindees left (I spoke to both parents who gave her excellent references).
She is in her 50s/60s I'd say and hasn't rushed to get a second child a)because she said she wanted to get DD settled first b) she doesn't want to work fulltime otherwise it affects the pension she gets c) I get the impression DD is a pretty chilled baby (believe it or not having such a paranoid mother as me ) and I think she likes just having one who isn't much fuss to look after.
She doesn't do paint, sand or stuff like that. She does have a garden though. I thought DD was probably old enough to do those sort of things now so was going to bring it up with her.

I would be worried about the smoke and the dog tbh.

it makes no difference health wise whether the friend smokes in front of the children or outside.. if her clothes smell of smoke then she is passing it on to your child.

I see my friends after work or at the weekend,my day is all about the mindees.

what decisions you may make regarding your own children may be totally different from those you make with the minded ones, i.e i may have taken my own dcs to a smokers house(parents in law) but wouldnt dream of exposing minded children to that. she doesnt sound professional imo..

CRABIOUS totally get your post but you are describing what a child should get at home arnt you I did that with my own dcs but I wouldnt feel right about taking parents money and then just sitting and chatting to my friends iuswim..

exactly thebody. re your response to crabious.

Oh for goodness sake. To all those saying a child can't smell of smoke if the person has not smoked around them - bollocks.

I have a 4month old baby. My DH smokes. He does so out of the house, in the back garden. I have asked him to put on a jacket and then take it off when he comes into the house. Sometimes he forgets. Guess what? When he then cuddles our baby, she has a distinct smoky smell about her.

Not pleasant. But it happens and there really are worse things in life.

OP - your CM may just be telling the truth about the cuddle you know. Your decision re what to do but if you have a good relationship with the CM and trust her, I would suggest you have a bit of a wake-up call. You can walk down the street, have someone smoke in front of you and the smell waft to your child you know. That is life.