CM Club: how can i tactfully suggest to a mum that her DS may have a problem?

[Numberfour]

I have minded a nearly 5 yr old boy for about 6 months now. I am sure that i have posted on here before about his lack of cooperation and how he just does NOT listen to me. The teachers at school are also aware of this and have the boy on some listening "training" programme.

He has had a hearing test and there are no problems. He also has had a session with a SALT who oddly enough said that she is not able to help him at the moment because he is not listening properly yet. She said to the parents that they must speak slower to the child and also suggested that the reason for the child's speech defect (bad diction) could be because he speaks too quickly. I think that that is nonsense (but I am not a SALT so I may be talking nonsense myself.....)

however, I have done a little reading and I think that the boy may have Auditory Processing Disorder.

So, my question is how do I raise this with the parents? The boy's daily diary I do for him is littered with reports of not listening, not cooperating, struggling to follow instructions, running off and not stopping, etc etc etc.

How should I handle this?

Have you spoken to the parents to tell them that you suspect a problem? Be prepared to offer, well not a solution, but to point in the direction of help/assessment/dx so for example if you believe that the family Dr is appropriate in this case, say so, or School Nurse, or whoever.

That would be my first step; followed I think by a letter outlining the concerns that were raised by you at the meeting. Put the letter in the child's file.

Then you can say to yourself that you have drawn attention to your concerns (here is the evidence, in the form of the letter to parents) and hope that the parents take notice.

They are not obliged to do anything with the information

Good luck, it's a tricky one

I had something similar, the parents were not interested and although I feel the child has unusual traits the child is doing okay at school

Can you print some research off maybe something that you have found online, or copies from a publication, and pop it in his day book.

I did this for a mindee who had health probs, they did tests and as a result takes medication.

Parents were ok as they will be having the same issues and will probably be grateful of any help.

BALD, i have not gone so far as to say that i suspect there is a problem, but the school has referred him to one of their SEN teachers (sorry - not sure of the correct terminology). Part of my reluctance to say anything that direct is that my DS is in school with this child, also in Reception and he is doing well. So I am concerned that the parents may be a bit offended!

I feel that I must say something, though. This child should in fact have a full and thorough assessment because he also has many unusual traits, as you so very well put it! The parents are more concerned about his not listening and his diction than anything else (clumsiness, wetting, and other matters).

I think that I would not be doing my job properly if I did not say something, and I think that your idea of following it up with a letter is a very good idea. Thanks so much for your advice.

I have also had a case where the mother was not interested in matters that I raised in respect of another child. Very odd! If it were my little one, I would do anything to make his or her life smoother! (but then I am, of course, a perfect mum )

thanks, atworknotworking. i like that idea too. I have seen a couple of pages I could print off for them.

good for you for raising your concerns to your parents. it is not easy, is it!

The thing is its sometimes easier for a parent not to acknowledge a problem thus not having to take any action, than to accept that there is one.. ifswim...

As a cm my biggest problem would be the lack of obedience with this child.. is he liable to run off/into the road while you are in charge of him?

I have given notice for one of my after schoolers as he crossed the road twice totally against instructions and I cant trust him. (hes 7) and I cant physically hold onto him while pushing a double buggy and helping toddler on reins.. The parents thought it was funny!! totally mental!! There is only so much you can do, its the parents job to be the parent and you seem to have done all that you can here.

thebody, this child runs off a lot! i have even resorted to putting reins on him and holding on to the back of the reins where it fits against the back rather than holding on to the lead. this was because he thought it a hoot and kept on turning around. i cannot trust him to walk with me and the other children on the pavement. i usually have him hold my hand or hold on to the buggy and even then I put my hand over his because he keeps on removing it.

he is incredibly hard work and i am reaching the point where unless something is done to get him to listen, i will have to give notice.

i will point the parents in the direction of Auditory Processing Disorder and see what comes of that.

(how on EARTH can parents think it funny when they have been told that their child ran into the road???? absolutely beyond me. DS would get the bollocking of his life)

You are right to be concerned for the safety of all the children you care for, if this child disobeys basic safety issues like not running into the road, then potentially this could put the other children at risk.

I think you should perhaps mention this in the letter, it may impress upon the childs parents how important this problem is in being resolved.

atwork, the very first day I had him, we went to a park that has a small lake next to it. he ran STRAIGHT for the water and did not stop until he got to the water's edge despite me SCREAMING at him to stop.

his behaviour means that i pay more attention to him than any of the others and that I am constantly telling what to do because he does not do as he is told.

thanks for your advice - i have in fact told the parents before that he has to cooperate because he is putting the safety of the other children at risk too.

i will pass on what info i have found out and probably give it til the summer holidays. if there is no marked improvement by then, then I will have no choice but to give them notice. i have to consider whether this child is with me or not before i decide if we can go to the park or walk around the lake etc. even half term, i choice certain types of outings to suit his lack of cooperation and unacceptable behaviour.

even my DS is getting fed up....

You have more patience than I would in this situation, I think if the other LOs are getting fed up of it then it is definitely effecting them negatively and I would serve notice, it's not like you haven't mentioned your issues to the parents before (and they obviously didn't make an impression on him on your behalf) ....

lollipop, i feel that because the parents are aware of the situation and because the school is also to some extent involved, i cannot just give notice. however, if there was any serious compromise of safety either with him or the other children I would certainly terminate the contract.

wish me luck because i am going to raise the possibility of APD with mum tonight......

good luck mate

thanks, BALD

dad was not particularly impressed, it seems.

the rest is up to them.

you have informed parents of your concerns, now as you say, it's up to them

compose your letter, keep a copy in your file and then relax

well done, it's never EVER easy to hear that someone thinks that your child might have an issue

[cup of tea and creme egg]

[glass of wine and groceries to be packed away ]

tx. this is a hard job to do on your own sometimes.

I would throughly recommend having a look at Letters and Sounds Phase 1 and go back to basics re the sound discrimination and listening.

so many children are never taught to listen and then process (responding accordingly), receptive and expressive speech is not taught/encouraged/demonstrated, nor is being taught to distinguish or listen for sounds and its shown in research that recption teachers are having to go back to basics more and more. Parents/society do not realise the importance of the basics of speech and communication.

If he is being spoken to fast then perhaps he is switching off or he just can't process what is being said. If he is always been spoken at instead of to - again he may be switching off.

When speaking to him, get down to eye level, get his attention, use a soft (but firm) tone. use simple instructions and phrases - don't overload the sentence. its proven through research that children 'hear' things better through a sing-song and nonsense words. So when talking about road safety for instance make a tune up about crossing the road using simple phrases and accompany it with gestures (ie a clap, stamp of foot). make up nonsense rhymes and words. lots of sound-the-same words and visual prompts.

Other websites: ICan

thanks, pippin. i have the Letters and Sounds booklet on my shelf gathering dust.

I will do what I can but feel that at this stage it is up to Reception and the parents to take it further. I have the nearly 5 yr old for 9 hours a week. Not MUCH difference I can do other than in respect of road saftey, i guess.

i do the eye level and usually try the short sentences approach. i must confess to being stern at times out of sheer frustration.

i appreciate your advice, thank you!

What did the dad say about it then Numberfour?

glad you asked, lollipop!! i did not want to bore the world with the rest of the story. he said Oh. nothing more. I landed up apologizing says that I did not mean to be presumptuous (SP?) etc, but that perhaps it may be useful to read it.

The expression on his face changed - in fact his whole demeanour did! - when I mentioned it so it was clear that he did not like me saying what I did. I think it is a case of me being "only" a childminder.

I saw him at school today and if he did not see me then he definitely knew I was there and def must have heard me. But he did not turn to greet me (and it would have been inappropriate for me to call out to him, because of where i was standing). Now I am convinced that they are peed off with me.

However, their child would definitely benefit in having further assessments and if they choose to ignore it then the sad state of affairs is that their child is the one that will lose out.

Its such a shame if the parents dont take notice of your thoughts.
I have a DS with mild SN and would be so grateful that any CM looking after him was so open minded about his behaviour rather than thinking he is 'just naughty' and giving up on him!

thanks, allaboutme. i really appreciate your comments! at every parent / teacher consultation i have been to for my DS i have always asked if i am missing something or if there are any gaps that need my attention that i may miss as his mum.

Did you actually say to the parents that you feel he may have a specific disorder?

Bigweehag - total post crash here, but is your name an ode to Terry Pratchett because I'm searching my brain for where I've heard the phrase before and I'm sure it's his Hatfull of Sky book!

BigWeeHag, no, not at all. It's not my place to make a diagnosis. I said to the Dad that as he knows, I am interested in child development and that I had been doing some reading and found something about ADP that he may want to read. I said that some of the symptoms seemed to fit in with what the LO was exhibiting.

Lollipopmother, yes indeed it is. Sir Pratchett, I salute you.

Numberfour, I'm struggling to say what I think without being horrible, essentially I want to point out that as a parent I have been intensely irritated by lay people doing a bit of googling and then deciding they know what is "wrong" with my son, or that they know how to fix it (in the case of a previous CM, to the point where she utterly ignored my wishes.) OTOH, as a CM/ nanny I had to express any concerns. I just feel generally it is better to stick to exactly what you have seen/ observed in your time, and let the parents do with that information what they will. Good records could be invauable if/ when the ed psych makes an appearance, I would keep an Antecedent Behaviour Consequence record.

That naturally does not prevent you from using tools and techniques that would work with a child with APD - I use techniques like that with my son, who as yet is not diagnosed with anything. For example, a morning and evening visual schedule has actually changed our lives, but I can't think of many 4 year olds who DON'T like routine etc. FWIW, I do understand that you have the child's best interests at heart, it's just a dangerous path to go down, discussing conditions etc.

BigWeeHag, yes, i thought you may be concerned about me saying to the parents that XYZ is WRONG with their child.

However, in their case alarm bells should be ringing: their teacher has put LO on a listening programme, their CM (Me ! who is EYPS) has pointed out over and over and over and over again at hand over and in daily diary that their child is not listening, the SALT has said that she will wait to the end of Feb to assist further as LO is not listening well enough yet.

I did not try to make a layperson's diagnosis and would never be so presumptuous as to do that; but i do wonder why the parents do not sit up and take note when no less then 3 professionals involved in various aspects of care, education and therapy have indicated that there are problems with listening.

Last night was thinking about the ABC route (and yes, I MUST MUST MUST record that, you are 100% right!!) : walking from the school to car was the A: just that - walking to the car, holding on to the buggy. Behaviour: turning back, hanging on to the handle of the buggy, trying to get his foot under the wheel as it was turning, letting go and trying to run off. Consequence: he was not allowed to take part in his favourite activity at home. SO it was not as if the Antecedent was THAT difficult.

It is a tough situation and one that is starting to wear me (and ds) down.