What should I expect from my new nanny?

[Renwein]

I'm new to employing a nanny and hoping for some feedback from people more experienced and nannies. I have two DS - DS1 4years and at school and DS2 nearly 8 months. I'm back at work four days a week on 22nd Feb and nanny has started this week with a two week settling in period before she is on her own.

Refs came back that she was reliable and honest but that she needed quite a lot of direction and management. She has 15 years experience and lives locally and I thought those things were enough to counterbalance her needing a bit more direction.

But now that she has started I am really worried about the amount of direction she seems to need. I think it doesn't help that I'm around as I find it difficult to sit and read the paper whilst someone else looks after my DC and I think that she isn't sure what she is supposed to be doing. But she is not at all proactive and quite happy to sit there and let me spoon feed DS2 or empty DS1's potty/wipe his bottom (don't ask why he is still using the potty and not wiping his own bottom - it's only at home...) whilst she does nothing. She has also asked questions like how many times a week I expect her to do laundry, whereas I would expect her to do laundry when there are enough dirty clothes. She has done one lot of laundry because I asked her to but she had to be reminded to put away the clothes the next day. DS2 isn't a great daytime sleeper and she also asked if she should hold off cooking for him until he was taking longer naps in the day. I've done the school pick up twice with her and she says she still isn't confident enough to do it on her own. I've told her several times I want to carry on breastfeeding in the mornings and evenings and she keeps asking me if I am going to give up so that it will be easier to give DS2 a bottle (he takes one but it takes a few minutes of persuasion). When DS2 was alone with her and I was upstairs, she left him in a separate room whilst she ate her lunch in the kitchen, rather than taking her lunch into the same room as him or bringing him into the kitchen with her (he is not crawling but he does roll around the floor a lot). She also seems to find it impossible to get out of the house on time. No matter how many times I tell her what time we need to leave to get to school on time, she is still putting on her shoes and coat when I'm standing at the door waiting for her. Yesterday she was sitting reading a book five minutes before we needed to go without having prepared a bottle for DS2 or the snack which I usually take for DS1 (which I had told her about several times).

What I've done so far is leave her on her own a lot more today so that she is forced to get meals and look after the DC more and that has been quite good and she has done a lot more. I had already written out DS2's routine for her in so far as he follows one and I've now also written out in detail what she needs to do when e.g. between 8 and 8.30 am you need to have made breakfast for DS2 and fed him, made sure DS1 has brushed his teeth, put on his jumper and shoes and been to the loo etc etc and written out exactly what laundry and cooking she needs to do. I gave her some positive feedback about her interaction with DS2 (you can tell I've been on lots of management courses ) and then gave her the extra instructions. When I asked her later if she was happy with them and whether they were clear, she was quite positive and said she was happy I'd set it out for her. I've got a meeting at school tomorrow which ends at pick up time but I think I'm going to ask her to come to school anyway because I need to know that she can make it there on her own on time.

I feel I have to give her a fair chance, not least because I recruited her about three months ago and she has waited around doing temp jobs until the start date. I feel I probably can make it work if I micro-manage her. But equally, we're paying the top end of what the agency told us was the market rate for our area, DH and I are both in public sector jobs and we are really maxing ourselves out to afford a nanny. I can't help feeling we should be gettting a bit more for our money.

I'll definitely give her a few weeks to try to settle in. The deal with the agency is that they find someone else free of charge if we let her go within four weeks. But any views on what we should be expecting by way of her performance and whether I'm doing the right things to try to bring her on?

Ta

She has done both, left them alone when I was there and left them alone so that DH or I have come in to find them on their own. The only reason I spent the time after school with them on Thursday was because I came in to find them on their own. She didn't know I was there and I was waiting and waiting for her to come in but it didn't happen. I do have some concerns about leaving her with the baby but my experience so far tells me that she will do exactly what I tell her to but nothing more. So, if I say that she mustn't leave the baby on his own she won't but she just won't be able to do anything else. She is not a bad person, always on time and tries hard but just can't seem to be very organised or multi-task. So, when I suggested to her that if she needed to cook, she brought DS2 into the kitchen with her, I came in to find him grizzling in his high chair because she hadn't brought him any toys and wasn't popping over to chat to him every couple of minutes, the way I do.

I think I am moving towards letting her go, though I feel terrible for her and not sure what I am going to do for childcare if I can't sort something next week.

Agree she doesn't sound great. How much experience does she have with children DS1s age? Is she used to dealing with school runs and having to do things to a timetable?

She really shouldn't be leaving the children alone, especially not DS2. He might suddenly learn to crawl when her back is turned. Some of what you've put is normal for a nanny settling in with mother around. Some of it isn't and they worry me. Don't worry about childcare if you have to let her go. Temp nannies aren't too difficult to find and, although they cost a bit more, are usually very capable which should take some if the pressure off you.

I can't believe she left them alone again, like that, and it sounds like it was for a while. As you say you know your DS1 isn't going to hurt DS1, but she didn't, plus a rolling 8mth old could get into all sorts of difficulties or pick up anything off the floor and put it in his mouth . She should be using her first few weeks, to build up a bond with your children, and getting to know them, and their ways, likes, dislikes etc, not leaving them to their own devices. To me she sounds lazy, like she just can't be arsed with it all. Plus downright rude not returning the call to the agency.

To say she can't cook/do laundry is she has to 'look' after your DC is quite frankly crap, a decent nanny should be able to cope! I have three charges, granted 1 is at school but I manage to do laundry, cook and do a squillion other little jobs, whilst keeping an eye on the younger 2 (aged 1 and 3) whilst they entertain themselves, or I engage them in an activity, i.e drawing at the table whilst I cook, or actually involved them in the job, putting the clothes in the washing machine for example. Your 8mth old could be a bouncy chair in the kitchen whilst she cooks, and she could then keep an eye on him, and natter away having a chat to him, thus keeping him happy and entertained whilst she cooks. It's not rocket science, nannying to me is a whole bucketload of common sense, and using your iniative to plan ahead.

I'm with blondes on this one, alarm bells are ringing I rarely post here, more of a lurker, but this has got to me. I'm just sorry that your first foray into having a nanny has not gone as you had hoped.

She might not be a bad person, but she does sound like a bad nanny tbh. If she hasn't picked up the basics in 15 years then she's not going to get them now however closely you manage her.

I'd be on to the agency for a replacement asap.

And not leaving babies alone, being on time for school and combining nursery duties and childcare IS basic stuff. She sounds more at the level you'd expect from someone in their first nanny job after being an au pair or working in a nursery.

Shelley, my understanding is that the nanny didn't say she cant cook while looking the dcs. OP says 'i fear she will say...'

I am just wondering am i the only one who experiences this with dh?. Every weekend, when both of us home, it goes like this:
Me: Why is the stairgate not shut?
Dh: I was going upstairs and saw you coming towards hallway so i thought you are taking dd2 upstairs.

10 minutes later:
DH: Why are Dcs alone in playroom?
Me: They are not alone you are there.
DH: No i 'm in the study.

You know what they say 'two chefs in the kitchen...'
I think OP's nanny needs clear instructions and clear messages about sole responsiibility.

Laquiatar, OP obviously has some reason for fearing that's what the nanny will say, it didn't come across as some random comment, and OP did say that the nanny is struggling to fit in looking after the baby and doing laundry, cooking etc, plus the nanny asked if she should leave cooking until the baby sleeps better in the day. So That's why I posted what I did.

I'm more interested in why a nanny of 15 years experience thinks it's ok to leave a mobile (albeit only rolling) 8mth old baby alone for such a long time . I did also say in an earlier statement that she should sit the nanny down and go through all her concerns and address them, I didn't suggest shoving her out of the door at the first opportunity!

Do you really think a nanny of 15 years needs in all explaining so clearly? Why is she sat reading instead of helping OP get the children ready to go out? Why isn't she spending her time getting to know her new charges? Why is she leaving the children on their own for long periods. From a nanny's point of view, it doesn't seem right somehow.

PS I'm sure she's a lovely person, I just wonder about her professionally!

are you sure this nanny has 15yrs exp?

she should be able to multitask,cook/play/look after 2/3children easily, let alone 1 baby when older child is at school

what ages did she used to look after?

be very interesting to hear what the nanny says to the agency and what they say in return

Shelley, i missed the bit about the nanny saying this in op's first post and i read the 'i fear she will say...' in the next post. I hope you accept my apologies

I agree about leaving the baby alone. BUT i left my babies alone if they have fallen asleep in another room and they were safe.

The book, yes i was wondering too. But another poster asked OP earlier.

But, yes, i do think that you need very clear instructions when you start a new job even if you have 30 years experience. I still stand by this bit.

Apolgies accepted Laquitar, Thread is 4 pages long, easy to forget what's on page 1 Yes I fully accept that when you start with a new family ,that it takes a while to find your feet, and what's expected. A bit of guidance is acceptable. But a nanny with that much experience shouldn't need several reminders about what time they have to leave and she hadn't made the bottle and snack that OP had asked her to do several times.

Plus it doesn't sound like the children were asleep, as OP said she sat for half an hour waiting for the nanny to come and check on them, which she didn't do as I read it.

I just don't think a nanny of 15yrs needs to be micromanaged!

Blondes - I to will be interested in the agency feedback!

I've nannied for 16years and I don't think this nanny sounds up to it to be really honest. However, I think you should ask her outright in a friendly, over a coffee kind of way how she is feeling as you have a few worries. You may find out then she isn't happy either. If she is shocked you are not happy, explain nicely why and ask if she would be more confident without you there and does she truly think she can manage?

If the answer is yea then I suggest you leave her for a day's work alone. You are going to need to soon anyhow and see how it goes. Ensure she knows you will come back if telephoned...perhaps pop in briefly mid way through day to pick up something you've forgotten.

You need to feel confident in her and she needs to have confidence in her abilities. If it isn't working, move on. You were warned of her shortcomings but simply explain it won't work for you...give her a week's pay and find someone else.

Let other Nannies decide for themselves where they would like to work...if you interview and offer a job, they can always say no if they were not comfortable in the surroundings!! If you are friendly, caring of her feelings, reasonable in your demands/requests, a Nanny will be happy xx

Blondes beat me to it. Are you certain she has nannied for 15 years, mostly all the time? ie not in 1995 and then now.

I would have a serious talk giving her a get-out if she wants to leave without any bad feeling.

No, i don't think she needs to be micromanaged either.
The way i see it:

• Clear instructions= once. on first day. In detail.
• Micromanaging= daily. Piece by piece. More suitable for very new nannies or AP.

My approach is that if you deal with experienced nanny you give clear instructions and let her to it. If unhappy with something you tell her.

Personally
a) i would ask her straight why she left dcs alone and tell her that i 'm not happy with this (although they were not alone if OP was there and that's why i say 'two chefs in the kitchen..'
b)if i wanted the nanny to feed the baby then ...i wouldn't start feeding him
c) i would be specific ie we tend to wash twice a week, dcs change top, shocks daily, but wear skirts twice. Thats because different families have different rules and you need to spell out yours (in the begining and only once)
d) i would talk about breaks, would make sure she has lunch break. But reading book when is time for school run not acceptable.
e)i would lock myself in the study

She definitely has 15 years experience but including a two year stint in a nursery, quite a few temp jobs and lots of shortish jobs of 6 months to a year.

Think I have learned lots of lessons about nannies in one week. I appreciate what was said about leaving a nanny to it. I was trying to be nice and wait for her to step in rather than ordering her around but agree it probably just caused confusion. I will also have a much clearer idea of what I am looking for next time I interview and will take any negative comments by referees much more seriously.

I did give clear written instructions on DS2's routine at the outset and what Annabel Karmel recipes he eats but have still had to tell her again several times. Also gave clear written instructions on day 2 on what she had to do before school, time to leave for school pick up and what to bring, good days to do laundry and how much I expected her to cook for DS2 once it became clear she was struggling with those things.

My DC don't fall asleep when they're playing! I should be so lucky. DS2 has been wide awake on the several occasions she has left him.

From talking to DH I think I have got to the point where we can't keep her on any more. Just lost too much confidence. I think she just doesn't work well independently and isn't very practical. The number of times she has to be told and shown things and the kinds of questions she is asking (like how do you work the scales when they only have three buttons - on, off and g/oz) make me think she can't just get on with things. I feel the DC would be better looked after if I sent DS1 to after school club and DS2 to DS1's old nursery which sort of defeats the point of shelling out loads for top quality care in their own home.

So, probably have to let her go on Monday. Just a question of whether I wait for the agency and/or have a talk giving her a get out. I feel a bit awkward when I've pretty much already made the decision so expect I will just give her a week's pay and let her go. That gives me a full week to find someone else or a temp.

What negative comments did her referees make? I mean were they specific comments or just general 'needs a lot of guidance' comments. Do probe anything negative referees say because IMO negatives shouldn't really come up in a reference check unless specifically asked. A lot of people will have specific negatives which were down to personal preference or a skill that nanny didn't have which could have been helpful but over-arching negatives can't be dismissed so easily.

Let the agency deal with this - it's what you hire them for. They should also be bending over backwards to find you someone else.

Her last employer said my nanny needed a lot of management but that the previous nanny had been very unreliable so they went with my nanny as a reliable option, even though she needed direction. Last employer also said she didn't like housework, which I took as being a bit unreasonable as she is being paid to be a nanny not a housekeeper but now makes sense in the context of her attitude to the DC's laundry and cooking.

The really negative reference was from someone who replaced my nanny after a few months. The written reference said she wanted someone more bubbly and outgoing but on the phone she said that my nanny had needed too much direction and that she thought my nanny would have been happier working in the baby room in a nursery where she could be properly managed. She came across a bit mad and posh and said things like "let's face it, she's not the sharpest tool in the box" which made me give less credibility to what she was saying. Also, the things she was complaining about were things like not being able to find her way driving across London to a party or to fold a buggy, both of which I think are quite difficult things to do. But it all makes perfect sense now and I think she was spot on about my nanny being happier working in a nursery.

Anyway, must go to bed as DS2 is still getting me up at 5am. Thanks so much to you all for your advice on this. It has been genuinely helpful.

Ah ok now it all makes sense and it seems like all her references have the same negative comment so you are probably right to don't want to give her more chances. FWIW driving around london could be tricky for some people but folding a buggy? For a nanny?

Good luck in whatever you decide after this - new nanny or nursery.

renwein, when you were describing your nanny, she sounded similar to an aupair I had. If I had to give an honest reference about her, I would used the exact same terms the 'non sharpest tool in the box' reference had used.

Micro-management of this sort is barely tolerable in an aupair. Totally unacceptable in an 'experienced' nanny you are paying top end rates for.

It is not going to get better ... you and dh made the right decision.

Oh its a pity she's your first nanny because otherwise I think more alarm bells would be ringing when you got those references Saying 'she doesn't like housework' is, I think, a polite way to say 'she does bugger all around the house so DON'T hire her!' But people are always trying to be nice when they give refs, I think...

Agree with Maria to pay serious attention to any bad references. People are usually understating the issue. If you have 3 references who are basically saying the same thing, that would be a big no-no.

You should always have the killer question: if your circumstances were the same, would you hire her again? Listen carefully for any pause. What you want to hear is an unhesitating 'yes'.

I have had glowing references for 2 different aupairs, and in each case, the aupair turned out to have significant (but non-fatal) issues that were not mentioned. People generally don't like to give bad references. I can understand that if they feel the nanny is basically ok.

I would be a bit I only have 3yrs experience and work for a family with 3 children and do all their cleaning, cooking (and batch cook stuff for freezer) and laundry as well as organise all their stuff, packed lunches etc. Am never late for anything, infact usually early and also do lots of crafts/activities with children. And the youngest only sleeps for an hour so hardly much time. You just learn ways to manage. I would have thought in 15 yrs she would be able to do that.

If you have written it down for her and she still can't get it then I would start looking for a new nanny. Things like struggling to get the washing on in her first few weeks I could understand - say for example because the babys unsettled because shes new so has to spend more time with her, I can totally understand that, I have had wee ones who need constant carrying/singing to in first few days settling in time as anxious babies. (Althought it doesn't sound like shes having to carry baby around all the time!) But she doesn't seem to be doing the basics.

I really dont think you are being too harsh. The job states you need X, Y, Z done and shes only managing some of that and the refs state that she does have probe with this...its hardly encouraging. She might be lovely but maybe needs a job where theres less to do.

If it was just about getting the laungry/cooking done then I would say if you trust her 100% feel shes really lovely etc then can you live without these things done perfectly? (eg sometimes you might have to do some of dcs washing yourself/maybe batch cook stuff for her to heat up) BUT it doesn't even sound as if you trust her that much with the whole leaving baby on own thing.

It does sound like her referees were honest about her! I agree with what previous posters have said about references almost always being positive, even glossing over minor issues.

It's been a sharp learning curve for you, but at least you'll be in a much better position hiring your next nanny. The big warning signs for me would be:

• no long term positions at all in 15 years
• being sacked from a position
• anything negative in her references at all

you live and learn renwein

tbh i would have quereied why a nanny of 15years has had so many temp jobs, or not have been in a long term position

obv jobs get lost due to parents getting made redundant/moving/giving up work/getting pregnant etc but i would have thought there would have been a few long term jobs in there - nannies generally are not long term temps, as in do it for 15years

driving in london is scarey (blondes hates it) but im not from london but manage it with trusty sat nav when i am pp there

the averge nanny can collaspe most buggies, though there was one in a pp job that was a real pita to collaspe - a huge mountian buggy

as i said before,she should be capable of looking after one baby/make bottles/prepare meals, do laundry and get to the older childs school a mile away

im sorry this hasnt worked out, and if you are def going to dismiss this nanny then it may be worth calling agency and leaving them a message on their phone today or emailing them, and ask them to call you BEFORE they talk to this nanny, so that you can make your position clear

as simply me says, there are many nannies in your area, and sure you will find a decent/caring/reliable one

an employer hires a nanny to replace them while they are working - you need to know that your children are safe and well looked after, or you wont be able to do your job to the best abilty as you will always be worrying about your children

Yeah, feel a bit foolish now I look back. The signs were all there . DS2 is a really mellow little chap so she really didn't have a problem. I have just been hanging out the washing with him sitting on the floor playing with toys. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that's how you manage to get jobs done.

Blondes, thanks for suggestion to email agency. I will definitely do that. I can't really understand why she didn't phone them on Friday. She definitely had an inkling things were going wrong because she had said something about how she knows she asks a lot of questions. She is not a bad person but not lovely and did not play/engage much with DCs. I can't really keep her as am just worrying about everything from whether DS2 will bang his head to whether she could be trusted to put in the car seats properly.

Thanks for all your advice.

Ren which area are you in?