am I being unreasonable?

[helenlucyp]

OK, long post I'm afraid....
DH (?!) moved out in early Nov (looks permanent, won't bore you with the detail), knock on effect was needed to get a fulltime live-out nanny to start in early Jan, replacing 2 days of DH childcare and 3 days of lovely childminder for 2xDDs. Through fog of misery due to domestic earthquake, got my act together and went through rigorous recruitment process to get fab, well qualified and referenced nanny. 1st 2 weeks of Jan virtual write-off due to snow and her taking a day off sick, then 1 blissful week where she came every day, DDs loved her, I loved her, all great....... then she texts me to say she is ill. Cut a long story short, she has been off the last 2 weeks, in contact mostly through text and email, 1 phone conversation but other attempts I have made to speak with her put off by her. Doctor visits, bloodtests, pain relief meds etc etc. But emails back end of last week saying she was feeling much better and what hours did I need her this week, how much she was looking forward to coming back.
I have been paying her in full, paying my old childminder to cover some of the days, had my folks helping out etc. All with the commitment from nanny that she would be back today. Imagine my concern to get a text at 6.30 this morning saying she had had a bad night, in pain, no way she could work.
I feel so torn, I need a reliable lovely person to leave my gorgeous girls with, so I can earn the money to pay the mortgage etc and keep it all together at this horrible time...... but I don't want to treat nanny badly..........

any thoughts? Just makes me feel better having got that lot out of my system

Have you asked for a sick note from her doctor? Do you know what the illness is? Have you considered not paying her, going onto SSP instead. Its been a while now, so your nanny is probably expecting you to stop full pay, in my view. Full pay is nice but not practical for long term sickness.

Most nannies in my view work whilst ill, it's bad really but we tend to work through minor illness, only have days off for major things, at deaths door kinda thing.
Other nannies may or maynot agree with me. Maybe I'm just a work-a-holic.

Hi

she said last week she had a sick note from her doc that she would bring today. It may well be that she is genuinely really ill, it is more the way she is handling the comms - not calling but texting, it is not a great way to communicate. I am aware that I am under stress in other areas (XH, fulltime job etc) and I may not be cutting her the slack she needs

Nope, you're cutting her lots of slack. E-mailing and texting is not professional IMO.

Straight onto SSP and sick note to be sent to you straight away along with doctor's assessment of when she will be fit to work. I also work through most illnesses and the only time I can recall having off was last August when I had swine flu and in France you weren't legally allowed to work if you were signed off by a doctor. In fact you weren't supposed to leave the house. Otherwise I've always gone into work and struggled through - thankfully as a nanny one can take things a little easy. I'm not accusing her of shirking but clearly you need to know so you can make some provisions.

Did you ask her previous employers about her health record?

previous employer was an NHS trust as she was doing a non-nanny job, nope, didn't occur to me to do as you suggest, kicking myself now. Did take up the nannying (excellent) refs and no hint of a prob. But she has told me she had a problem some years ago which was cleared up with antibiotics - stomach thing, same symptoms now but bloodtests her doc sent her for week before last didn't show any bugs that would be addressed by ABs.

What have you put in her contract regarding sick pay? I put SSP only but that gives me the choice of paying full pay if it's a minor illness. My employer would ask for a doctors note after the first 5 working days so I think it would be acceptable to ask for one.
None of that helps with the imediate situation of no nanny and work to be done though... Could you start looking for a replacement ( people gave very little employment rights in the first year, let alone in the first few weeks)?

I second what the others say - definitely put her onto SSP and ask for a sick note. And tell her to stop texting and get on the phone if she can't come in.

Remember you can recover costs of SSP as an employer.

www.hmrc.gov.uk/calcs/ssp.htm

Sorry, that should be:

www.hmrc.gov.uk/calcs/ssp.htm

I would start nanny hunting immediately to be on the safe side, btw

have got SSP in the contract as millarkie says, was gritting teeth and paying full pay last week as concerned stress of no pay (SSP from gov is peanuts) might exacerbate illness. Like the point about assessment from doc about when she will be fit to work, will ask for that along with sick note. Have to say am looking at alternatives, although am aware I may go from one set of probs to another - seems now it was too good to be true that she seemed so spot on.........

I think you may find that if she has to turn up to work in order to get paid, things will improve, but if she's genuinely got a problem, then frankly this early on in the relationship you could both do without the stress of wondering whether it will ever work, so it might actually be less awful to hire someone else instead. What does everyone else think?

Boffin, I tend to agree re have to work to get paid. Haven't been off sick myself for 15 years, but then had to take 3 weeks off with stress when XH left before Christmas and so feel sympathy with my nanny about the stress she must be going through. That said, my primary responsibility is to my DDs and me being strung out because of not knowing from one day to the next whether I can get to work is hardly helping. Am v lucky with incredible boss and parents/sister all doing all they can to help. Just really want to get a couple of boring, predictable weeks under my belt and regroup a bit

Agree that you don't need the stress of an unreliable sickly nanny and to get looking, but glad someone else mentioned it first!

Do tread very carefully though and seek legal advice.

Boffin Mum

Thankyou
Have just read one of the other threads looking for pearls of wisdom and stumbled across your The curse of Boff. Again. Made me smile hugely, not because I relish your pain but just great humourous and heartening to see all the other posts rallying round you

and thanks to everyone else for v helpful advice, I feel more able to get back on my feet and take this on

They are great, really. They keep me sane in the middle of disaster and chaos.

BTW there's do as you would be done by - in your case apparently subliminally reimbursing society for the three weeks' sick leave of your own by being extra nice to nanny, and there's being a pushover. I am often a pushover. The difference between the two is probably a proper sicknote and proper communication.

so I am off to see her at her flat, having failed to raise her on the phone, just more texts and emails.....did I mention I picked up the tab for her Ofsted reg (we had agreed 50/50 split) as she hadn't the cash...oh dear, am I a mug ? anyway, at least I will get my carseat back and I have lovely, much more local, nanny coming round for 2nd interview this aftn, also my fomer fab CM has given me number of a nnay she would recommend who is job hunting so I live in hope.

BTW, nannynick, blondeshavemorefun, frakkinaround and tons of others, can't tell you how great it is to be reading various threads with your advice in, ditto other working mums (BoffinMum, I raise a glass to you!) who employ nannies, feel like it's not me on my own (major issue since departure of DH), though fear I now have a serious MN addiction

Oh yes, MN nanny thread addiction is something I struggle with as well. I think everything I would have said has already been said. But, I would like to add that you seem remarkabley sane and capable of keeping it all together, given your circumstance. You are doing an excellent job. Well done.

MN is the new village pump, m'dear, and long may it remain.

I'd like to second Strix's 'You are doing an excellent job'.

Have you given her notice (via the texts/emails)? Good luck with today's interview

peeks over shoulder and gives helenlucyp a very frowned upon mn hug ((HUG))

you have certainly been through the mill recently, but we are here to support you

as you have ssp in contract, that is what you should have paid, but very kind of you to pay in full

as nick said, us nannies go in on deaths door (literally in my case) in 18years of nannying i have had 3 weeks off, all together, just over 3years ago and that was when i had a blood clot in my lung and nearly died and was in hospital

any other time i am ill (rare) i go in and we have a tv/quiet day (if that is possible with 3)

your nanny should have kept you informed by phone calls and i think if she has had this amount of time off (and you dont know why) it may be wise to look for alturnative childcare - hope interview goes well

deduct the money she owes you for ofsted reg from her salary

Hello, amazing how a glass or two of good red puts things in a bit more perspctive....and a virtual hug, thanks blondes
Went to see her and she is genuinely in a bad way, wiped out by pain and lack of sleep, eating anything makes her innards hurt etc. On wait list for endoscopy which should give better idea of what on earth is going on
Gently broke it to her that I would have to replace her, due to need for complete reliability etc, which she completely understood. She then handed me presents for the girls (DD1 7 last week), I headed off and cried all the way home.......

HOWEVER. Advice from legal bloke at nanny payroll is that have to be v careful about possible discrimination claim and on reflection I will sleep easier if I know I am paying her SSP (esp as I get some back through tax) - she was great with the DDs when she could get here and you never know how things will work out, if she is fit and healthy in a few weeks great.
In the meantime, totally lovely nanny who lives 4 streets away (let it snow ) came for 2nd vg interview and is spending a day with us next week to get to know us and hopefully good to start as temp sick cover from 22nd.
And do you know the funny thing, suddenly DXH is least/last of my worries and all that seems a lot less signif than right person to look after DDs, that's good, right?

Of course your kids come first.

And with regard to the discrimination, being fit and healthy is presumably a requirement of the job so I would have trouble seeing how a nanny could get very far with a claim is she had only worked for you for a week and then not been able to come in for ages due to ill health.

In the meantime, SSP, some flowers and a nice card made by your girls, and a sincerely expressed desire to keep in touch might go a long way towards being decent.

wine always helps

least you know you nanny isnt faking it (it happens) and often tummy pains are hard to diagnose

if you really like your ill nanny,pay her ssp then hire the temp for a month and see how things go and then revaluate

and remember you are always doing the best you can for your kids, no matter what happens, and that is all you can do x