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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Nanny resigned after 3 weeks! Do I give her Xmas pay?

29 replies

florenceuk · 14/12/2009 09:25

Our nanny resigned after 3 weeks (because she found dealing with my two kids too stressful ), and gave us notice for the week ending 8th Jan. This is just the most awful time to find someone - with the Xmas break, it may appear to be a month but is more like about two weeks. This is for after school and holiday care, nanny had some childcare experience but not qualified. TBH I think DD is difficult, she is very good at school, but she is a very stroppy and stubborn 5yr old - but then again, she's 5 - most of her defiance consists of not listening and an awful lot of screaming, which I am doing my best to ignore/discipline.

Anyway, should I pay her for the holiday period - we're taking holidays from the 23rd to the 3rd anyway, and it feels just wrong to give her a week and half holiday pay. But then again, I'd like her if possible not to spend her last few weeks in a resentful frame of mind and make matters worse. What should I do?

OP posts:

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ssd · 14/12/2009 09:30

if you were the nanny, what would you think is reasonable?

I'd ask her if you aren't sure, I would say don't pay, to me she shouldn't expect it

FabIsGettingReadyForChristmas · 14/12/2009 09:33

What is in your contract?

I wouldn't expect pay (former nanny) if I quit within the first month. My contracts were 1 weeks notice within the first month and 3 months notice after that.

My advice would be to let her go earlier, she can consider that her pay. Get a temp in, paid for with the ex nanny's pay, and get a cast iron contract for this happening in the future.

TBH I would have her gone now if she finds me kids too stressful. In her head she has already gone so not sure how committed she will be to look after them from now on.

greybird · 14/12/2009 09:34

You need to work out how much paid leave she has accumulated whilst working for you for 3 weeks - if she is entitled to say 25 days in 52 weeks, then she is entitled to 3/52x25= 1.4 days for 3 weeks, and that's all the holiday you need to pay (unless of course there is specific mention of Xmas holiday pay in her contract). What's the notice period?

lou031205 · 14/12/2009 09:55

All employed people are entitled to 5.6 weeks of holiday per year, which for a 5 day week is 28 days.

Your nanny will have worked 7 weeks at the end of her notice period, so she is entitled to

28/52x7= 3.75 days leave.

Original poster

florenceuk · 14/12/2009 09:56

Thanks - strictly speaking, her holiday pay is 5wks a year, so pro-rata-ed it's something like a day earnt so far. But I wasn't sure what she would expect - from what you are all saying, no holiday pay sounds like the norm. I would let her go but as it's after school care it's difficult to find someone at short notice over Xmas, without paying full time rates. Anybody know someone who is free in Wimbledon area, let me know!

OP posts:

callaird · 14/12/2009 10:19

Lou is correct, 5.6 is the legal entitlement for holiday now. But that includes bank holidays, so 3.75 days = christmas day, boxing (which this year will be carried over to Monday 28th) and new years day so there is three days, you should only pay her her .75 holiday.

But what exactly does it say in her contract? Signed or not, is still legally binding. If it says 5 weeks plus all bank holidays (which it does in my contract!) it will be 33 days a year, which works out at 4.44 days.

I am a nanny btw and I would

a) never give notice after 3 weeks, the children have not had a chance to get to know her (and vise versa) and always play up for someone new.

b) No matter how difficult I was finding the job, I would not leave a family in the lurch like this, I know how difficlt it is to find someone you feel comfortable with leaving your precious children with.

I wonder if she has had a better* offer?

*By better, I don't mean there is anything wrong with your position but that she has something with better pay/closer to home/less children/less hours!

FabIsGettingReadyForChristmas · 14/12/2009 10:47

If she asks for a reference I would be clear that there isn't a lot you could put other than she was with you for 3 weeks and turned up on time/cooked well/insert as appropriate.

nannynick · 14/12/2009 10:53

I'm with Lou, in that you need to base holiday calculation on the period from start to end date.
I'd keep things as simple as possible and roundup entitlement to whole days, though if hours vary each day then do calculations based on hours.
How many of her usual working days are you away for?

Original poster

florenceuk · 14/12/2009 11:15

Thanks - we are away for about a week (she normally works 4 days) but don't normally ask anybody to work between Xmas/New Year.

Callaird - I think the problem is more that this is a part-time position for her and she's just not that "into it" - resigning over Xmas is incredibly awkward and I agree, IME three weeks is too short to decide that the job is too stressful. But when I said it was very disappointing she said "I have to think about me." I don't expect her to ask me for a reference (although I'm tempted to ring up the one she gave me, and give her a blast in case she ever uses her again). Just because a five yr old says "I hate you I hate you" - can't be that unusual surely!!!!

OP posts:

Laquitar · 14/12/2009 11:50

Yes, Lou is right about the 5.6 weeks, however i thought you have to work for a period - 3 months? - before you are entitled to it? Or am i completely wrong?

As for her giving notice so soon, i am going to disagree with the others. I think if it doesn't work out then leaving is the most decent thing to do. I imagine how stressfull is for you with christmas coming but would you prefer this to happen after your children bond with her? In a way it is blessing she has been honest about it.

I would go with fab's idea and let her go now if you can cover from 3nd till 8th Jan.

Blondeshavemorefun · 14/12/2009 13:08

nightmare for you

hope you find childcare and guess having off 25, 26 and jan 1st should even out her holidays

annh · 14/12/2009 15:06

Florence, are you asking if you have to pay her holiday pay which she has already accumulated or are you asking if you have to pay her during the time when you are away at Christmas and during some of which she would normally be working? I interpreted your question as the latter whereas everyone else seems to think it's the former. Did you have anything in your contract to cover what would happen if she was available to work but you didn't need her? In most cases, it will be agreed that just because you are away you still need to pay your nany. Often, families ask the nanny to come in some of the time anyway to do some batch cooking for the kids, sort out wordrobes, etc but obviously you won't want to do that in your case.

gingernutlover · 14/12/2009 17:26

has she been there long enough to have built up this amount of holiday?

most jobs you cant take your holiday straight away, you have to work a few months before building up the entitlement?

Not sure if this matters if it was you that chose the holiday though

minderjinx · 14/12/2009 18:04

I think a five year old saying I hate you I hate you IS pretty unusual. I would be mortified if my children were that rude to any adult by that age, and the screaming a lot sounds pretty unpleasant too (again baring in mind DD is five, not two). You do seem rather surprisingly accepting of it all, and maybe the nanny may have been expecting more support from you in tackling this behaviour? I'm not condoning leaving you in the lurch, but if your expectations and methods are not a good match, it is probably better to go your separate ways sooner rather than later.

minderjinx · 14/12/2009 18:05

I did mean "bearing" before anyone tells me!

AtheneNoctua · 14/12/2009 18:27

I'm with Lou as well. I would pay her the holiday she has legally earned in the time she has been there. I wouldn't pay her any more.

Whilst "I hate you" is not pleasant I do think it is normal. Not all children behave this way. But some do. And I think those are normal variations in children's behaviours. And, I would also point out that as the nanny it is her job to develop/suggest a strategy for dealing with it. And if she is unable or unwilling to do that then it's probably best she leave.

StealthPolarBear · 14/12/2009 18:37

i thought the legal min was 20 days - BH don't have to be given

lou031205 · 14/12/2009 18:52

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Timeoffandholidays/DG_10029788 Bank holidays don't have to be given, but the employee is entitled to 5.6 weeks or 28 days (if working a 5 day week). If BHs are given, they can be part of the 28 days.

lou031205 · 14/12/2009 18:54

Although Annh raises a good point. What does thee contract say about Christmas holiday?

StealthPolarBear · 14/12/2009 19:13

ah yes, sorry, that's right, so would make 20 days holiday and 8 days BH. My mix up

AtheneNoctua · 14/12/2009 19:51

Unless your contract states otherwise choosing when the holiday can or cannot be taken is the employer's priviledge. If this time has already been established as holiday, I would tell her it is holiday and also that since she has not accrued enough entitlement it is unpaid holiday.

Also, as you are in the first 3 weeks of her employment, can't you say good-bye on say a weeks notice? Or do you not have a probationary period?

Original poster

florenceuk · 14/12/2009 20:03

minderjinx - I don't like DD's behaviour but if you look on the boards here horrible five yr olds are not unusual. What is unusual is that DD is treating the nanny like this - usually she saves it up for her Dad and I, and has so far been reasonably well behaved for our nannies and extremely good at school. We do discipline her including time out, and other punishments (withdrawal of treats) and we are certainly not accepting of it. DD is stubborn and extremely strong willed, and what happened was that the nanny took something of hers away and she screamed I hate you (something I can remember doing to my dad TBH as a young thing). I hope you don't have a stubborn DD who is exhausted from being in her first term at school, and your words come back to bite you on the bum.

While I don't think contractually I need to give her much holiday pay my question was more whether, given she has offered to work until the first week of Jan would she expect it. I think the answer is, probably not. and I guess I'll have to take back the cashmere handwarmers I'd bought as a present. And I should try hard to find someone to cover for jan.

OP posts:

callaird · 15/12/2009 15:19

I agree florence - I have been a nanny for 23 years, I have met many 5 year olds (and older) who lash out with I hate you, I don't love you, you are not my friend! All of the mothers have been horrified that their gorgeous child could come out with something like that. I have managed to win them round and usually it is without parental intervention. (Although I now tend to start jobs with babies so don't have this problem! Saying that, I am currently temping for an old family, had the (twin) boys from 6 months until they were 4 years old, saw them 3-4 times a year for a long weekend+ at a time, am back after just over 2 years, they had 2 nannies in that time, and I get the occasional, you are not my friend, I don't want you to look after me etc, I just sit down with them, explain (again!) why I am here, that I just want to me and them to enjoy the time I am here and that I love them very much and I will never stop! Seems to sort them out and it is getting less and less often, have been back 7 weeks now.)

I also agree with AtheneNoctua (and why wouldn't I! Hi, hope you are all well say hi to your gorgeous children from the lady that forgot petrol!) you can either give her the time off, unpaid, after all you are there to spend some quaility time off with your family, or give her the bank holidays off, but get her in for the rest of the time, maybe get her to come in at 10ish so you can go for a lovely long relaxed lunch with your DH/P, or a spa treatment or any number of other things!

I still think you are better off without her. Onwards and upwards!

purplehat · 15/12/2009 15:28

I would give her a weeks notice, calculate her holiday entitlement accordingly and say goodbye.

FabIsGettingReadyForChristmas · 15/12/2009 17:39

I would be interested to know why she has offered to work until Jan. My cynical mind thinks she is hoping for Christmas bonus/presents.

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