Advice re wage for AuPair/Mother's Help/Nanny

[HalleBerryLookalike]

Hello
I'm hoping there are some au pair knowledge experts on here to tell me whether what I'm about to propose is reasonable or not.

The help I'm proposing to use is not technically an au pair as I'm looking for someone over 25 years of age.

Care is for two children, one age 1, the other age 3.

The 3 year old would go to nursery Mon, Wed and Fri whereas the 1 year old would go to nursery Mon and Wed.

The home help/aupair/nanny whatever you call her would assist with getting them ready for nursery, dropping them off around 9am and picking them up at the end of the day around 5pm. She would then give them dinner (which I would've cooked beforehand), bath and mind them till 6:30pm when I return from work.

On the days when they are not in nursery, i.e. Tue and Thurs she would mind them from 7am till 6:30pm.

She would work on Saturday mornings from 8am till 12 noon and alternate Sunday mornings for approx 2 hours.

For the time in the 2 days when both of the children are in nursery she could have that as free time or attend language school but would also be required to fit in the children's laundry and ironing at some point during the week.

She would be given access to a car for transporting the kids but also for her private use if she chooses (including fuel).

I'm adding up the hours and find that she'd be on duty for approx 35 hours and I'm proposing to pay £80 negotiable up to £85 if she ticks all the boxes.

I've found that the standard pay for an 'au pair' is £65 per week for 25 hours.

I'm not sure how much paid holiday to give.

I'm hoping she'll stay for approx 24 months. I hope to book an appointment with an agency to go through the ins and outs of what I should be considering but I also value the opinions of people on here who have used such services.

I'd also be interested to hear some of your success / horror stories so that I can prevent any unfortunate misunderstandings or problems.

Finally I'm concerned about police checks. Is this easy to get when using the services of someone from the EU? How did you go about obtaining such checks?

If you want to pay such a low wage you're going to have someone under 25.

Otherwise you'll be looking at least £203 per week for 35 hours.

Hi HalleBerryLookalike..

Another night owl like me... Night off tonight but I can never sleep until at least 3am..!

My first impressions are that you should revise the pay upwards quite a bit as even if done on a pro-rata basis, 35 hours at the same rate is just over 90 pounds.. but you are looking for someone with experience of a young infant so will be someone who is either trsined & qualified from another country who wants to come and learn English, or who is here already and au paired with a family for a year or so and is looking for more responsibility and hence more pay. You are also looking for someone to do some hours of work on 13 days out of every 14..

An au pair should have two free days each week so the role won't be that popular with many people.

On the car front then it depends where you live. If you live fairly off the urban track then she would need a car to be able to get out and about.. So the car use and fuel provided may not be looked upon as a necessity rather than a benefit..

Speak with an agency and they will probably advise that an au pair is not recommended for a 1 year old, and theregore candidates who are qualified/skilled will be looking for a higher wage.

Regarding police checks - agencies should do this as a matter of course. When you speak to an agency ask them to find out all they can about the circumstances of the candidates before you interview them. It's always good to know a little background before talking to them. I used to do it all myself but got let down too many times by time wasters. The agency I've been using for the last few years usually give great feedback on each candidate and can usually pick out the very good ones.

My biggest horror stories when I did it myself have been with people letting me down. Had room ready, cleaned and tidies from floor to ceiling, basket of goodies on the bed, and the girl just failed to show up... Numerous tales of email/phone conversations lasting weeks with other candidates only for them to suddenly go cold, stop communicating or something else.

Since using agencies there has been almost no problems on the searching side. The problem is knowing who to choose.

With girls who have been living with us the problems have mainly been centred on eating habits/routine differences and driving.

Eating routines we always have a good talk to them before they come and try to identify the faddy eaters. My daughter is quite old herself now so I don't want any habits being copied. We've managed to have three consecutive girls with almost normal eating habits, but have had a couple who seem to live on chocolate.

Had a few car bumps mainly with reversing and manouvres.. Now just insist on more driving lessons to orientate and if the instructor says they are still weak then usually agree some extra ironing to cover them or they just pay over the agreed number.. I'm not going to pay for someone to learn to drive from scratch after all.

Success stories - we've had lots.. We keep in touch with almost every single person we've had living with us and have started to see babies, been to weddings and we've had holidays wjere we've dropped in and stayed or visited with their own families.

I try to treat all the girls as if they were my own daughter.. I usually go for older candidates as they are more independent, though we've been surprised by some who seemed were quite needy who were actually older. Everyone is different and I've learned it is wrong to generalise too much. Once you've had one au pair it's also a bad mistake to always be comparing to them - especially if you feel one was wonderful.. Hard for the next act to follow and when someone leaves that you've grown fond of, it's easy to forget how awkward/shy/uncommunicative or whatever they may have been when they first arrived.

Good Luck with it all - but I do think you need to think again about what you will pay..

You are right to say "home help/aupair/nanny whatever" as all these job titles are technically the same thing UK employment law wise these days.

I feel you are expecting a lot of someone unqualified and inexperienced in the care of young children. Though you do say things like "would assist" which implies you are still at home then but you then go on to say "when I return from work".
So I think this person will essentially have responsibility for your children from say 7.30am (or whatever time you leave home) until 6.30pm Monday-Friday plus Saturday 8-12 (are you at work then, or around at home?) and a few hours on alternate Sunday's.
So it's far more like 62 hours a week.
While your children will be at nursery some of that time, that isn't any different to having a nanny care for children who attend pre-school/nursery sessions and/or school.
While your children are at nursery, who would be on call if they were ill? Would you expect your nanny to collect your child even though they are essentially off-duty?

I feel there are issues with time-off. There don't appear to be 2 full days when your employee is not doing any work at all.
Weekly Rest - 24 hours clear of work each week. 48 hours clear of work each fortnight.
While it will probably be necessary for your employee to opt out of working time regulations (if opting out is still permitted) I do feel that you should try to comply with as much of it as possible... most people would get 24 hours clear of work a week.

When would you be expecting the laundry and ironing to be done exactly? Best in my view to be done when 1 year old is in nursery - so your employee isn't really off work when your 1 year old is in nursery... they will still have some household duties plus I suspect be on call.

National Minimum Wage does not apply for live-in jobs, so there isn't anything stopping you from offering less than £95 a week (plus full board and lodgings). However I do wonder if anyone would do the job, if they would stay very long once in it.

I'm not sure how much paid holiday to give.
5.6 weeks paid holiday is the statutory minimum currently in the UK. Basic info

I agree that it's not a standard au pair role.. It's a live in nanny role and you will be very lucky to find someone who has the skillls to cope with such young children, who can whole days sole charge and will work 13 out of 14 days without paying them a nanny wage. And if you find someone who will do it, the chances are that they will leave for a better paid job asap

Just a quick one, but we pay our Australian AP/Mother's help £150 pw for 35 hrs (we have registered as employers etc etc).

She is a trained nursery nurse at home and has sole charge of my 23 month old for around 4 hrs a day as well as doing school and pre school drop offs and pick ups.

We found her through AP world.

Very useful info, thank you!
Its good to know all this in advance.

I did place one ad and got a response but from someone who doesn't drive. She said she was being paid 600 danish kroner to care for 3 children including some nursery pick ups and drop offs via bicycle.

Her host is cutting down her work hours and no longer requires her services.

That translates to approx the same as I'm offering, if not less so I guess pay in europe is less than UK?

In any case I'd rather pay a fair wage and have someone who will stay long term.

I'm nervous about £90 as apparently I'd become liable for NI and tax etc - complicated!

I'm happy to clear Sunday and one more week day as free days and will up the wage to £89.99 per week and see what happens.

While kids are at nursery (both will be there from 9 to five for 2 days and no she will not be on call during those times. If child is ill, I'll pick up myself).

I'll see how it goes but your comments have been v useful so far. Thanks so much!

sounds to me you want a slave - someone to work 13/14days

you say you need/want someone 35hrs a week - but need 11.5hrs for 3 days (tue, thur+fri - as only one is at nursery on friday) and then 8ish - 6.30 the other 2 days both are at nursery 9-5 as well as sat and every other sunday

IF you are not about, ie at work/appointments etc, then the position is mainly sole charge and IF your chiuldren were ill then who would be looking after them/picking up from nursery?

i think you are looking at much more than £80 a week

sounds like you need a nanny 3 days a week plus help on a mon/wed before/after nursery pick up

sorry crossed posts about what happens when children at nursery - if you def only make 5 days, ie have weekends off, then hopefully you will find someone for £90

If you want a comparable, my au pair looks after the children 8-8.20am and 3.30-6pm, walks the dog and does 30mins to a maximum of 1 hour housework per weekday..she gets paid £85 pocket money, plus use of car including fuel, gym membership, mobile phone and £10 a month credit, 16-24 railcard. My children are at primary school and are relatively easy to look after compared to younger ones. She had a years experience as a live-in nanny before she came to us.
She does have au pair friends who are earning less although most get at least £75 or doing more strenuous jobs, but most of those are looking for new host families.
And do remember that if you are paying 'au pair money' whatever the job title you will most likely end up with someone with english as a second language and that's not ideal for children who are still learning to talk.

Threshold for PAYE and NI employer registration is £95 per week.

Is there some reg that says you have to keep records but not pay any NI/tax between something (?85) and £95 per week (or did I dream that one?)

HMRC: PAYE Basics
If paying less than £700 a month Gross, then see Simplified PAYE

Millarkie - you didn't dream it, it's in the Simplified PAYE link above.
"If it's their only job and you pay them at or over the LEL but below the Earnings Threshold (ET) for NICs - £110 a week or £476 a month (2009-10) - you won't have to operate PAYE on their earnings but you'll have to keep a record of their personal details, their National Insurance number and the amount you pay them."
LEL is £95 a week or £412 a month (2009-10)

I don't understand what the tax issue is. If you pay her say £110 per week your tax bill will still be very low. If money is an issue, I would give notice to the nursery and put that money towards an increased nanny salary.

Oh and I wasn't suggesting that £110 is a nanny salary. That was a very poorly worded post. Sorry.

For not too much more than £90 plus nursery fees a week you could get a very newly qualified live in 5 day nanny, or an unqualified nanny with a bit of experience. You would have the hassle of being an employer. I agree with Blondes that a 3 day nanny and help on weekends/drop-off picks (possibly an au pair) combination may suit you better.

Why do you need the weekend help? If you want someone working those days then you do end up paying a premium. People will want 48 hours off or at the very least Saturday afternoon through to Monday morning, but I've interviewed/been offered jobs in the past which were 2 mid-week days, or Fri/Sat or Sun/Mon as days off and it wasn't a factor in my not taking those jobs as I knew the terms before I interviewed and wouldn't have agreed to the interview otherwise.

Most EU citizens can get their own police check from the country they currently live in, otehrwise you will need to go through an agency or registered body to get a British CRB. You are right that pay in Europe is quite often less than in the UK.

From what you've said I feel you need to review your childcare arrangements and not try to have one person doing all of the above.

Hello its me again!
Thanks again.

I'm keen on the nursery because I like the environment of having other kids and the strutured activities with other kids. Just got back from a singing nativity play they did and my daughter was absolutely loving it! Its a v good nursery (montessori) and I'd prefer to retain it.

I'll bear all the above in mind and advertise at the £90 and see what happens. I'm happy to add the mobile phone, gym membership etc as that won't affect tax/NI.

Will let u know when a position materialises.

I think you are asking too much of an au pair unless she has child care qualifications and experience. The children are still v young. You are wanting three days of sole charge care plus probably four hours Mon/ Wed and also Sat morning. I think a more reasonable au pair salary would be about 150 pounds/ week given the age of the children, the hours and the weekend work that you require. Also, as others have said, au pairs usually have two free days per week which you are not giving her.

Hi
I think you'll find that the extras do count - benefits in kind. They all have a taxable monetary value.

Do you really need weekend help?

Extras only count for tax if they're not required for work AKAIK. So you can provide a mobile phone because they legitimately needs it during working hours. Gym membership would be taxable unless it's needed to take children to activities at the gym.

Info here on what benefits are taxable but this seems to date from 2006-2007 so worth asking for up-to-date info.

Hi

To the last three posters you probably missed one of my posts above where I said I'd free up two days by reducing hours. That, combined with £90 per week is comparable (and even better in many cases) to several ads I see on gumtree and greataupair websites. I am indeed looking for someone with experience with children so no, not a nineteen year old who would be overwhelmed by sole charge care but age 24 ranging through to age 50.

Thanks for the info on benefits in kind playftseforme.

Someone mentioned help from someone who speaks English as a second language. Thx for that. Actually those are the people I'm targeting - those interested in improving their English. My first daughter was initially cared for by MIL who spoke little English and my daughter didn't suffer as a result due to attending nursery. In fact she now understands the second language as well, though she doesn't speak it. Her English is well advanced, better than most three year olds.

I may have misunderstood but your MIL was speaking her native language to your DD1? Raising a child bilingually with 2 native speakers is very different to having a young child cared for by someone speaking a non-native tongue, in most cases not terribly well. There are implications for the acquisition of accents and deep grammar which is why it's not advisable for children to be cared for by people with an imperfect command of the language used for care. If you were looking for a nanny of a different nationality to speak their language to your DDs that would be a different matter and as long as their level of English is good enough to communicate in an emergency then it has no implications for your DDs linguistic development and can be very beneficial but that's not how your posts are coming across. As I said, I may have misunderstood.

Would the 2 free days be consecutive? I noticed you said Sunday and one more week day which indicates to me that they wouldn't be consecutive? Are there language courses available where you are on Mondays and Wednesdays that the au pair could reasonably attend? Would you be prepared to pay for a language course which might make your position more attractive (and isn't a benefit in kind if you make English language a job requirement because it's work-related training)?

I honestly don't know many 24 year olds who would do your job for 2 years for that money. When I worked in Paris there were people doing similar, probably fewer hours, for more and they all said they would stick out the year but no longer and in most cases a 'year' was only 9 months - Sept-June. You may get very lucky but IME and the experience of most on here migrant childcare workers don't stay that long. People who want to improve their English often want it for a reason and want to move onwards and upwards with their lives.

Some posts of gumtree and great au pair are, quite frankly ridiculous. To be completely honest I felt that your first post was, but now it's looking more sensible with the time off from Saturday lunch to Monday morning and another free day during the week.

I don't think a non-native speaker harms the language development. We have had Estonian, Polish, and Canadian nannies. In fact the only adult in my house with a British accent is DH. I am American and speak with Norther midwest American accent. However, my children both speak with West London accents. So all these different accent have not impaired their speech any. And, furthermore, it is very educational for children to listen to a variety of accents and languages even if they do not learn to speak them. It help build connections in their braind that will later aid learning a language.

Although I do remember being mildly bothered when my toddler started to say "What it is" instead of "what is it?"

Oh, and another point is that foreigners who learn to speak English from studying it in a classroom often have better grammar than those who grew up speaking the language in Britain.

I think you are asking way too much, even with your revisions.

I have two children, one under two years old. I am very careful not to expect much in terms of the toddler from our lovely aupair - that's why the toddler goes to nursery while I work.

I do all pick-ups and drop-offs.

I pay £70 a week for 25 ish hours a week, plus a mobile phone, a bike, gym membership and have offered to fund a part-time university course and STILL I may not be able to persuade my lovely aupair to stay a year. All her friends are going home after aupairing for less than 6 months, saying British families expect too much.

Have a rethink. You might see ads with different perks and hours and think you'll attract dozens of applicants - but do they get someone trustworthy who actually stays???? The best aupairs are in heavy demand. The first one I had I was one of twelve families who wanted her, the second aupair I actually poached from another family who were asking too much of her.

still think you need a 3 day part time nanny (ap/mothers help are not meant to have sole charge of young ones) and then other help 2 other days