Advice re wage for AuPair/Mother's Help/Nanny

[HalleBerryLookalike]

Hello
I'm hoping there are some au pair knowledge experts on here to tell me whether what I'm about to propose is reasonable or not.

The help I'm proposing to use is not technically an au pair as I'm looking for someone over 25 years of age.

Care is for two children, one age 1, the other age 3.

The 3 year old would go to nursery Mon, Wed and Fri whereas the 1 year old would go to nursery Mon and Wed.

The home help/aupair/nanny whatever you call her would assist with getting them ready for nursery, dropping them off around 9am and picking them up at the end of the day around 5pm. She would then give them dinner (which I would've cooked beforehand), bath and mind them till 6:30pm when I return from work.

On the days when they are not in nursery, i.e. Tue and Thurs she would mind them from 7am till 6:30pm.

She would work on Saturday mornings from 8am till 12 noon and alternate Sunday mornings for approx 2 hours.

For the time in the 2 days when both of the children are in nursery she could have that as free time or attend language school but would also be required to fit in the children's laundry and ironing at some point during the week.

She would be given access to a car for transporting the kids but also for her private use if she chooses (including fuel).

I'm adding up the hours and find that she'd be on duty for approx 35 hours and I'm proposing to pay £80 negotiable up to £85 if she ticks all the boxes.

I've found that the standard pay for an 'au pair' is £65 per week for 25 hours.

I'm not sure how much paid holiday to give.

I'm hoping she'll stay for approx 24 months. I hope to book an appointment with an agency to go through the ins and outs of what I should be considering but I also value the opinions of people on here who have used such services.

I'd also be interested to hear some of your success / horror stories so that I can prevent any unfortunate misunderstandings or problems.

Finally I'm concerned about police checks. Is this easy to get when using the services of someone from the EU? How did you go about obtaining such checks?

The point about accents isn't so much exposure to different ones it's shifting ones IYSWIM? An au pair may come with a very thick accent which improves and it's supposedly difficult for young children to 'fix' on that person's voice and model how they should be saying a particular word if they're hearing one person say it 5 different ways. 5 people saying it 5 different ways doesn't seem to have any impact at all - the children choose one way and stick to it. So someone who has a consistent accent, even if it's quite noticeable to other people, doesn't necessarily pose a problem, unless it's super thick and you start hearing children asking 'vare my teedy bear?'!

Basic capability is definitely something to bear in mind when assessing a person's level of English and accent and grammar form a part of that.

I do keep checking this thread for pointers. I take the point about expecting too much from them.

A friend of mine who has used au pairs also mentioned the fact that they tend to not stay very long, even with a good, fair family so the higher the wage, the more likely they are to be loyal and stable.

She also said that the Asian helps tend to be more loyal, whereas the Eastern Europeans are a waste of time! Massive generalisation I know but I guess she has lots of au pair / mothers help experience.

The problem with the Asian ads I see is that they tend not to drive.

I'm beginning to take in the advice about a three day nanny. Out of interest, and I know I should probably read more of your suggested links to get the answer here but if I pay someone say £110 for the hours I'm proposing, how much total would I end up paying after tax and NI? Like someone mentioned it might not be so bad afterall.

Another point my friend mentioned is that au pairs are notorious for seducing the males in the household. Any experiences of that???

you know what.

I think you're out of order

There was a thread about the seduction issue. The general consensus there was that people haven't had that problem, but then again if you ask for a photo and you take on a scantily clad AP in a provocative pose that's probably what you'll get.

Summary from Listen to Taxman for £110 a week. They would pay 1p of NI, and you would have 1p of employers NI. You may as well pay more if you can afford it and you're letting yourself in for the hassle of being an employer.

Here you can find rates and allowances for the 2 tax years which will concern you.

I would avoid making generalisations about particular nationalities. Over the last 13 years my mother has had au pairs to help out around the house and they've done bits of childcare for families from church. She gets through about 2 a year - typically a 9 month following the school year and a summer au pair, who gets paid more because she tends to do a full day or two of childcare for a few weeks. They've all be over 22 for the car insurance and usually are graduates or about to start their final year of university. She quite often boards 2 at a time to allow one to finish a course and another to start one and to give them a bit of a handover. Over that time she's had several fabulous Polish, Czech and Slovak girls, some great Scandanavians (fab childcare, not so hot on the cleaning though), two good French girls (good ironing), one good German, two dreadful Germans a dreadful Polish girl, a truly awful French girl, a Spanish boy and an Austrian boy over the summers who were good with children but needed to be taught how to clean and iron (but in their defence learned quickly). When I was still young enough to need an au pair we had a great Kiwi, a great Australian, a rubbish Australian, a great Czech girl and a rubbish Czech girl. So from someone else with lots of experience (both as a child being cared for and an adult observer who helps recruit them) it's down to individuals.

Eastern Europeans are easier from an employment perspective as the majority don't need visas.

I am still waiting.

I completely disagree with your friend's comment on Eastern Europeans. I have had two Polish and one Estonian nanny. The first Polish one was probably better suited to being an au pair. She was my first and I can see now that my expectations were a tad ambitious. It didn't work. She was sent home (after resigning).

The Estonian was very hard working. She had some issues with understanding she worked for me. But, I think that had more to do with her age. But, she was very honest and very hardworking.

The other Polish nanny is my current nanny. She worked for us once before. Returned to Poland for her masters. And has now come back. She is hard working, dedicated, the kids love her and I love her. When I ask her to do something once... she does it.

If you are really worried about an au pair seducing your husband I think you are being silly. I think men who sleep with the au pair could just as easily sleep with the secretary and probably would if the au pair didn't appear before him. You could always get an ugly au pair (or an ugly husband) and then at least one of them won't be interested.

a 3day nanny would cost more like £110 a day not £110 for 3 days

I think your most economical option is a full time live-in nanny (with only a couple of years of childcare and live-in experience) and keep all you work hours to pay for it. And drop the nursery to help pay for it.

A live-out nanny is the most expensive option.

That thing that I think will be a big turn off is the Saturday morning. Do you really need this?

The most economic thing I can think of is you get her to live in and pay her say £175 net (pay her the gross equivalent, whatever that is). She lives with you (all 7 days). She works for you 3 days. She gets another job for two days (at live-out rates). You get her tax allowance if you can swing it.

But, wouldn't you be better off working 5 days and having a live in nanny for five days so that you are her sole employer?

This is pretty much off the top of my head. I haven't really checked the numbers thoroughly. But I'm sure someone will come correct me if I've way underestimated.

£175 net is roughly £200 gross (works out to 174.99) and will cost £11.53 in employers NI.

Plenty of people keep a couple of sessions at nursery as well as having a nanny. Could you get them sessions at different times so they each have some one-to-one with the nanny if you desperately want to keep them there? Or have nursery two days and compress your working hours to fit in drop off/pick up and a 3 day nanny?

A live out nanny is likely to be around £380-675 gross/week (£299.19-502.74 net) with £34.57-72.33 of employers NI.

Live in £310-525 gross giving £250.89-399.24 net with £25.61-53.13 of employers NI.

All done with the tax calculator I linked to earlier based on a 5 day week, normal tax code, no student loan. You don't say where you are so it may be cheaper but unlikely to be more expensive unless you want supernanny - I've gone for rates local to me (south-east).

Glad to read your post, frakinaroundthechristmas (interesting username!)

I did think that surely its hit and miss as people are so different, regardless of nationality but I found commonalities in certain things I've been told. Interesting how people form generalisations from their experiences but then I guess one can't help it.

I'm also glad that the seduction thing is rare! Gosh some people are such scaremongers! I agree though that if someone takes a suggestive pic then well, what you see is what you get.

Knowittoowell, why am I out of order? Or was that a joke? I don't get it. If it wasn't a joke then pls don't be offended. The questions I'm asking are important for mmaking a crucial decision that affects my children and household and these are the kinds of questions asked by millions of people in my circumstances all over the world, I'm sure.

Some good suggestions there about working hours / nursery / live in/live out.

I'm exploring the option of excluding he drop off in the mornings as I can do that and having only pickups done by the nanny.

I think live out nanny is out of the question for me as I did discuss these with a few nannies and ruled it out due to cost.

I'll do some sums with the NI and tax situation and if it doesn't make too much difference I am happy to increase the wage but will pay no more than £120 per week. Even then I will only pay that to someone who is allround excellent at the job and at fitting in with our family.

That appears to me to be above market rate, looking at the rates being advertised all over the net. I feel anyone who sniffs at £120 for my revised hours is doing the job purely for the money which I don't think shows dedication. Such a person is in my opinion unlikely to be loyal in most situations. Bear in mind I'm not referring to UK nannies who appear to be the highest paid nannies anyway, live here and are doing this as their profession. I'm referring to foreign ladies who are aiming to improve their English or learn a new culture while doing something they love (for a limited time period) - working with children.

I do need alternate Saturdays at least - 2 hours minimum) otherwise housework will never get done or I'm shattered at work come Monday and the cycle never ends!

should be frakkinaroundthechristmastree but you can't see it all!

Hope you've found all this helpful and good luck finding someone.