Is my Nanny/mothers help being unreasonable to expect more discipline, money etc?

[ladyofla]

I am a SAHM and am lucky enough to have a Nanny/mothers help 2 days a week who started with us almost 3 months ago. She has a few years experience of looking after kids, is 26, has no kids of her own and no training as such but is doing a good job. I have one DD and am 9 months pg with a second. I explained to her when I employed her that the job involved looking after DD (playing, going to the park, feeding, putting down for naps etc) and some menial housework (putting on a wash, hanging it out, a little grocery shopping etc) basically the same stuff that I do. I have a cleaner a few hours a week.

Yesterday she told me that she has been finding it very hard with DD. DD has been acting up with her a bit but not excessively and TBH she is a very easy child and I'm constantly being told that by others. The nanny seems to have issues with me being around and DD running to me etc. and then not doing what the nanny wants. I've explained to the nanny that this is bound to happen a little but I have always made clear to DD that she must do what the nanny says and for the most part she does. The nanny talks a lot about discipline as if I should follow up on anything the nanny does. I teach my DD as much as I can the difference between right and wrong and she is very well behaved but she's 19 months old! The nanny thinks I am too 'nice'. The nanny has also said she thinks she should get more money because she does a bit of everything and it is harder than her other job (2 days a week, sole charge of a little girl, no menial tasks).

I can offer her more money which will hopefully keep her happy on that level but am also planning on telling her I don't want to change my parenting ways for her (I strongly believe that DD is being 'disciplined' (big word for dealing with a 19 months old) enough and I can't promise that my DD will behave better for her particularly as I think DD is pretty well behaved but with the new baby coming it is quite likely she is going through a bumpy phase.

I am hoping this is the right approach and am wondering if at the same tine if it will fix the situation. Has anyone else been in this situation or does anyone have advice?

I doubt she would ever want to smack. She is quite gentle with her really but sometimes insists a bit on pushing her on things - like the other night trying to get her to lie down after the bath to put body cream on. My DD already hated that bath and was upset and did not want to lie down. The nanny seemed to think that when I give her a bath when she is not there I should also get her to lie down so it would be consistent and she is used to it. As I told the nanny I just let my DD stand up and quickly rub on a bit of cream, a pull on nappy and her pj's and that's it. It sometimes feels as if the nanny thinks she knows better...

she maybe be looking for you to be on the same wave length. both agree what is acceptable behaviour and what isnt and then what behaviour management tactics to carry out if she misbehaves. it maybe that some things you think are ok she doesnt and vise versa.
i was talking to a nanny at the toddler group on monday and she has not long started looking after a we boy both mum and dad wrk from home and the mum consently checks on them she feels uneasy about that plus they all eat lunch together and shes doesnt no how is in charge of the child during this time as she child was climbing on the table and the mum and dad said nothing but she would have told him to get down but thought mum must think this is ok as she didnt say anything

When she talks about discipline I think she wants me to do what she does, so it it is consistent with DD. She thinks I am too 'nice' and then DD won't do what she wants because she can get away with stuff with me. But DD is so well behaved I don't really get it and I certainly don't let DD do anything she wants.

xoxcherylxox: I try to stay out of the way when she is taking care of DD. I'm pretty busy doing catching up on other stuff but I am around and I'm starting to think she would just rather not have a Mum around...

i think consistent is important is shes good for you you wont ever need to carry out discipline but when she does do something wrong then you should do what the nanny does so that it is consistent

I have been in your nannys position with a sahm whereby you tell the child off or tell them that they have lost something through misbehaviour and the mum lets the get away with it/have it. Ie if you don't eat your lunch you won't be having pudding - fruit is available and mum coming in and giving the child chocolate cake.

Do you leave nanny to get on with it or do you micromanage ? Can you just let nanny discipline as she views fit obvioiusly with discussion on techniques etc.

How much money is she getting now, how much more does she feel she should get?
If you are around all the time, then she is more a Mother's Help than a nanny I feel... so doing housework is to be expected... come to think of it, I do that as a a qualified experienced nanny (putting on the washing, hanging to dry, folding it and putting away, going to the shops to get things we are running low on (milk usually), vacuum the carpet, try to clean the carpet when the children spill things on it, etc).
With you at home, it is to be expected that your DD will want to spend time with you. At times you may want to get on with your own thing, so your Mothers Help should be trying to persuade your DD to do more fun things... playing, going to the park, walks in the wood, splashing in muddy puddles.
You and your mothers help do need to be consistent on discipline, have the same attitude towards things. It really does help... though at 19 months there isn't much discipline needed - just go with the flow unless your DD is putting themselves in danger. If your mothers help won't go along with how you do things... then time to find someone else.

Another one here that thinks the nanny should be following your discipline lead - and not insisting that you implement hers.

It is important for Mum to follow through nannies sanctions for any misdemeanours, so as not to confuse your child or set up any battles for child to play one off against the other. But the nanny should only be using any discipline techniques that you use and have given her the go ahead to use.

Lifeinagoldfishbowl: I am very conscious not to micromanage and I purposely try to stay out of their way. Meal times are sometimes difficult between Nanny and DD if I am at home (in another room) as DD knows I am there but I never would overrule the nanny but still DD can act up a little. I think that's the nature of the job. However, I let Nanny get on with it. I'm not sure that that's enough for her though....

I don't mind Nanny disciplining her as she sees fit (she's not extreme) but do mind told that I should then do as the Nanny does when she is not there.

Nannynick: you've totally summed it up. She is paid 10 gross. 8 net and I give her 9 net for extra babysitting. I think that is fair but I am willing to up it to 9 net and 10 for the babysitting. This is reasonable no? especially as you say she is more of a mothers help. Trouble is I think she sees herself as a proper nanny which even though she is quite efficient she is not a proper trained nanny... Maybe she is just trying to get more money out of me but she says that this is not the only issue...

nbee: I totally agree. The trouble is at 19 months old I don't have too many discipline techniques for her. She is really well behaved and only acts up with the nanny and I am willing to let the nanny deal with her then. Maybe it's just a clash of personalities...

Her wages sound entirely reasonable - even on the higher side for a mother's help who usually earn less than a sole charge nanny.
I only earn slightly more than that as a sole charge nanny with 20+ years experience (Hertfordshire area)

In her last job she was being paid 10 net per hour but she was only getting 15 hours a week. Now she gets between 40 and 50 hours between myself and the other Mum (we found her together).

TBH it seems unlikely that this woman is the right person for you and DD.

I have full time help and as a SAHM it is difficult to establish and maintain clearly defined roles and boundaries when you are around a lot of the time. The most important issue is that she is your DD and therefore your helper should be following your rules and your lead - this is not an unreasonable expectation and you need to be clear about it.

I would also be [hmmm] about the money comments. Assuming you are paying her an appropriate wage and it is the same wage and conditions she agreed to I certainly wouldn't be considering paying her anymore. She may be doing "a little bit of everything" but, especially with young children, that is part and parcel of the job and unless you specifically agreed that she wouldn't have to complaining about it isn't on.

Your dd is probably picking up on the inconsistencies. How often do you reiterate that when she is with the nanny she must do as the nanny says? It seems she doesn't feel she has to do anything she doesn't want to. This could be a problem if there was a safety risk e.g. traffic.

"she is paid 10 gross. 8 net and I give her 9 net for extra babysitting." - Seems rather high to me, guess you must be in London!

As a fully qualified and experienced nanny, I'm only on £10 gross... located in West Surrey just outside the M25. Part time jobs can pay more than full-time jobs but even so... it seems high when in comparison you could have a nanny like me for that price (or for maybe £2 an hour more if in London).

She's in a Mothers Help Role but is already getting Nanny Salary... yet she want's more? Madness... surely! Even if you are in London, she's not a qualified nanny, she doesn't have 10+ years childcare experience and isn't in sole charge of your DD.
I wouldn't consider raising her salary... what is she proposing to do extra for an increased salary?

Doesn't sound as though you are both on the same wavelength - or even that close! Not a match made in heaven. Do you see it lasting long?

Nannynick. It is London but you are still totally right. The think is, I think she firmly believes she deserves more. The only reason I am will to up her salary is because DD2 is due in 5 days and although my Mum will be here over X-mas and the Nanny will be on hols most of the time then anyway I really need someone from Jan (DH works long hours and I have no family here). It would be hard to find a replacement over x-mas. the other thing is she speaks French (not mother tongue but fairly good) and we want someone French speaking so DD can pick it up and that seems to be working a bit. It is very difficult to find Frech/french speaking help.

So for the money you are getting something that someone else wouldn't necessarily provide... I only know around 30 words in French. So that does impact a bit on salary... though if she is wanting to be a Nanny, then DD2 DOES NOT impact on salary as a nanny is paid to care for all children in the family, not on a per-child basis.
Given the situation, keeping her for another 3 months sounds viable assuming you can get her to realise that YOU are in charge, not her... so she needs to try to follow your lead when it comes to discipline and do menial tasks assigned without protest - after all, you want here there to help you, not create more hassles.

True. I am going to explain to her that the job is what it is (childcare, some menial tasks etc) and that I need someone flexible. She knows the score there. Then I am going to explain that I have no problem with her input on ideas about activities, food etc but I cannot be told how to parent or discipline. However, I don't micromanage and am happy to let her to get on with it. She needs to understand that the issue of me being around and DD possibly acting up a bit is part and parcel of the job. DD is not a devil child though (quite the opposite!). Then I will offer her a bit more money as I said but stress that she is VERY well paid. If this makes things better then it will be worth it. If it doesn't then I'll have to think about finding someone else....

The other issue is the outcome of this will probably be negative for the other Mum. Right now the Nanny is saying that when she takes care of the other child it is much easier because she just looks after her and doesn't have to do anything else and that the child doesn't act up at all. As I pointed out when we had our last nanny (which we also found together) the opposite was true. The other child freaked out the whole time with the nanny and the nanny found my child an angel compared. It just shows that kids go through phases and surely good nannies are not phased by this and get on with it?

If I give this nanny more cash is she eventually going to try to get more out of the other Mum too? or if she leaves me is she going to leave the other Mum too because part time won't be enough and it is easier to find a full time position than another part time one...

I know a few French-speaking nannies around. Are you in Froggie Valley? Or would a French au pair suit?