Trouble with the CM

[dixia]

Hi,

I am having trouble with my child minder.

I need your opinions about whether it is me or her that is being unreasonable and how to move forward from here.

My DS is 2yrs 9 months. He is ready for potty training. I think he has been ready for a while to come out of nappies and showing lots of good signs. I have an older son, who is now 7 and we trained him with no trouble. We have been asking him every week if he would like to buy a potty and start wearing pants - last week he said yes. So we went out and bought pants and potties and he is very excited about starting.

He goes to a pre-school every day from 9-12 and then to a CM afterwards 3 days a week from 12 til 4.30.

On Monday I took DS to pre-school in nappies and said to the lady that the following day he would be coming in pants. She said that that was fine, just bring lots of pairs of pants, trousers, socks etc and that they would take him to the potty every 20 minutes or so. Great - good reaction. But the CM has really shocked me. She says that she isn't happy about him being out of nappies. She asked that we postpone the starting of training until tomorrow (friday) when he doesn't go to her house and will have just pre-school and then Friday pm to Monday am at home. I felt that this was fair enough really, so agreed.

Now she says that I must provide my own equipment for him - potty, car seat covers, etc. Is this normal? I haven't had to provide any other equipment (she has pushchairs and carseats).

She also says that if he has two accidents in one day she will put him in a nappy. But that doesn't really work for me. i think he might have lots of accidents in the first few days.

She wants him to bring training pants, but I really think that there is no difference between these and nappies and I don't want to use them at home. I want to go straight into pants.

She says that she wants to sit down and have a meeting about his routine with me before he starts in pants, but I have told her that there is no routine. What will happen is that I put him in pants, take him to the potty regularly, he sometimes gets it right and sometimes has an accident, we change him and start again.

I need some advice about how to handle this situation. I am confused about whether I am being unreasonable or whether she is.

Thanks

I don't have a CM, so not really sure how it all works, but I would imagine that potty training is something that CM's see alot, and therefore should be prepared to take you ds to the toilet every 20 mins, and change his clothes when needed.

There should be no talk of putting him back into nappies without your permission. You are his mother, you decide, and you are paying her to look after your ds, and part of that is helping to potty train him.

I'd be annoyed with what she's said, so no , YANBU.

I'm a CM and always tell parents that I will carry on potty training after it has been going well at home first.
I do provide my own equipment though.

im the same as moshie i will continue it once it has been started at home. if however i feel after trying that the child is not ready as they just keep having accident after accident then i will speak to parents and discuss this and tell them i do no feel there are ready as you would be surprised at some parents they just see and age and think they must be toilet trained they dont actually see that the child has to be ready and they think that its upto the childminder to do all the hard wrk as we have the child most of the day where as alot of parents tend to start it while they are off for a few days and then return with the child already use to being taken to toilet reguarly.

i do have a potty but maybe she sees it as a hygiene thing that he has his own also some children will only be happy to use there own potty as it is familiar to them.
car seat covers i dont no where i would be with them as when i last toilet trained a child a didnt drive at the time although it can be a great inconvience if they wet it say on the nursery run and then you need to use the car again for school pick up the car seat wouldnt be wash and dry in time.
i know that i hated it if the child had an accident in the buggy as if we were out there was nothing i could do apart from change the child and try and put a blanket down for them to sit on also same problem again when washing would it be washed and dryed in time. taking pram seats and car seat covers off can be quite hard to do you sometime has to take the pram or car seat apart then build it again.

Hi everyone,

Moshie and Cheryl, can you tell me, does it not confuse the children having them in nappies with you and pants at other times? I am really keen for it to happen across the board at the same time. He is only with her for 13 hours a week, so it is not full time.

I worry about him being put back into nappies as a punishment for him having an accident. This is not what I will be doing at home.

i feel really very uneasy about what she has said and how she has handled this. I am really quite close to pulling him out of there and finding another CM. Am I over reacting?

i would only have them in nappies if the parents hadnt been doing the toilet training at home for a few days before coming to me but once they had done it at home for a few days then i would not have the child in nappies. the only time i used nappies is when we go on outings at the start of toilet training as they dont no when they need the toilet plus cant keep it in and if your in the middle of a park or on a bus its not the best place to have an accident or take them to toilet. but then again most of my parents if going out shopping or something would put there child in a nappy if they had just started training then you slowly get them off them.
i started a we boy toilet training we use to walk to the school that would take 5 mins in car but 25mins walk he could not keep it in so had to wear a nappy for the 25mins there and back slowly i started getting him to go to the toilet before we left but somedays on the way bk he needed so luckly had a nappy on, slowly he started to last longer ie at first we would be 20mins from being back at house then 15 then 10 then at the top of the street then eventually when he had dry nappies i stopped putting them on him.

i presume he will still have a night nappy but wont be confused by that so it should be fine if serious about toilet training dont use pull ups to replace pants only use them if you intened to use them as a nappy as thats what they feel like for a child where as at least pants they can tell thats not a nappy

Thanks Cheryl,

Yes, I really agree with the pull up thing. I wont be using them at all - I know that they feel the same as nappies. So I won't be providing the childminder with any.

I also agree with your point about trips. I will put a nappy on him when we go out - certainly for the first 2 weeks or so. if it was only putting a nappy on when going out then it would be different. I think your approach sounds sensible. And I am doing it at home for 3 days before he goes to her.

I work with the parents as closely as possible. Most of the parents I work with usually start it at home, and have a few days or week "concentrated" effort. I then happily take over and will do my very best to support the child.

You are not overeacting as you feel that your own instincts are being doubted.

Please do take into account that your childminder may have several other small children and it can be quite difficult if a child has had an accident and there is a baby crawling around the floor, or if she does lots of school pick-up's and finds it quite difficult to regularly get him on a potty quickly (especially now its winter - lots of layers). I do try and work out times when I am a little quieter or over school holidays when I am not running around, to ensure continuity in the early days.

The most recent lo I helped potty train, I brought him his own "special" potty (not an expensive one) set up a chart next to it, was all geared up and within one week, he didn't want the potty, he wanted to use the "big toilet" like the other children - even refusing the inner seat, clever chap.

I personally dislike pull-up's don't see the point at all.

your cm should be a professional and respect your views/requests(yes she is not employed by you but still needs to follow how you do things)

it confues the child to be in nappies and pants

tbh if a child isnt potty trianed within 2weeks then i personally fele that they are not ready - you dont want to spend months doing it

though obv you have the odd accident

Hi RosieGirl,
Actually, my DS is the only child that she looks after, apart from her own 2yo son. I just think that she really isn't experienced enough to deal with this? It will be the first time as a CM she has done it (as she is fairly recently registered) and has only had older children prior to this.

Is shes worried about changeing car seat covers and pushchairs getting wet why not get some of those pampers bed mat things. I used to fold one up for the car seat and one for the pushchair. They are disposable but would save a lot of washing.

She should see it as a challenge then, because I personally feel proud when a little one achieves it, they give brilliant smiles when they see they have done their business, especially if they manage independantly and bring it too you to inspect, and of course you tell them how wonderful it is and how brillant they are, with a pottyfull under your nose!

I agree with everything Rosie Girl says. I am quite happy to carry on potty training that has been started properly at home first, over a long weekend or maybe a holiday if possible.

I have been asked to start from scratch and refused, it really is the parents job to start the process and the cm should support this as it goes on.

I think pull ups are a total waste of time.

However parents should remember that most cms have other childrens needs top consider so the child being trained must be ready for it.

I provide all equipment and would only expect parents to provide extra clothes.

Ah, if she only has one child of her own who is not potty trained then she is probably really worried about it and thinking its a much bigger deal than it really is (I know I did with ds1!).

I think if you try a few days of potty training yourself before he goes to her, ie start potty training after the 3rd visit to her in the week, then he will have 4 full days of potty training before you take him again. If he is ready he will crack it in that time. Tbh, if she looks after 2 x 2 year old boys then I can understand why she thinks that keep putting him on the potty might be a big ask.

By the way, my two go to nursery and regulations state that each child should have its own potty (nursery provide them but each one is allocated and labelled for a particular child when they are having a potty training stint), so she may just be following regulations.

I know when I had never potty trained a child, I thougth training pants were essential, but now I know they are not (I sold all mine on the nappy lady ).

Oh and first two weeks with both mine, we only went to very local places like the park where accidents wouldn't matter, and kept car journeys to the shortest possible.

That explains it then.
If her own son is only just 2yo and she has only started CMing recently then you probably sent her into a panic by suggesting that you will bring your DS to her the next day with no nappy and expect her to do the first day of potty training when she has no experience of it at all.
I think her suggestion that you start on a Friday and have 3 days with him yourself to start with is a good one.
After those three days I'd have a hand over (if she collects him from pre school then I'd phone her Sunday maybe for a chat) and just tell her that you appreciate she hasnt dealt with it before, but DS has got on X well over the last 3 days and please can she pick him up from pre school and carry on as you have been. Explain that nappy for trips is fine, but not at any other time. Ask her to ask him to sit on potty every 20 mins (or however long you have settled on) and also tell her how you are dealing with accidents.. ie. what to tell to DS when he has an accident etc. Give her loads of spare pants and trousers and a big bag for the wet ones to go in!
Also maybe reassure her that the first few days are a bit messy but they usually 'get it' within a week or two when they are ready, so it really is only a short term thing.

I never start from scratch either, it's the parent's job, not mine.
I will do everything to help support the child's progress after they have been started off at home.
I don't agree with training pants either apart from perhaps at naptimes (does your child nap still?)
Carseat covers - don't see the problem with this - get some pampers mats or some piddle pads for the CM.
Potty - her own child is only 2yo and she may not have a potty yet plus some people prefer to use their own - again I don't see the problem there.
I would say that any child having more than 2-3 accidents a day is not quite ready yet and if you really really don't want a nappy put back on then make sure there are double the amount of spare clothes you think your dc will need.
I think calling a meeting to discuss the situation was the right thing for your CM to do so again can't see the problem with that?

It does sound as though she doesn't have the experience so wants to talk to you so that she can follow your routine.
I don't put them in nappies if they're out of them at home, but will use pullups because they are easy to pull up and down (obviously) for frequent trips to the potty, while safeguarding my floors and furniture, car seat and pushchair. I haven't had a problem with confusion and have helped to potty train lots of children.

In answer to your question I think that you are being unreasonable not her.
As you said :

"i think he might have lots of accidents in the first few days "

This is correct and therefore the first few days should be done at home by yourself , as the other CMs on here have said they carry on the work that the parent has started not do it for them.
Of course you should provide the potty etc for this , it is personal to your child.

I am not sure why you are being negative about her suggesting a meeting as regards handling this very important stage in your child's development ? Seems very odd on your part.

TBH it sounds to me as if you have wanted to hand the whole matter over to the nursery and CM and opt out .

I'd agree with what most people have said... it's fair to take a child who is a few days into potty training and doing well to a CM, but not a child who is still wetting their pants several times a day. This is a job for parents!

OTOH my mum used to be a CM, and I remember her having 5 1&2 year olds potty training at the same time (she had different children on different days), and she was happy to take them from day 1 potty training, but my sister (one of the littlies) was her DD3, so she'd done it all before, and the group effort worked well for everyone!

I'd say you should provide Pampers mats or similar if he is still having accidents as they're not cheap to buy, and wet car seats or pushchairs are a big PITA (no pun intended )

I'm a childminder and am happy to work with parents, but would not be happy to toilet train a child from scratch.Thats mums job.
I have 3 toddlers all due to start toilet training in my setting. Mum of one of them is going to try over xmas, that will be 2 weeks at home so hopefully I can then carry on, the other isn't ready so will be tried at home at easter, and the other some other time.
I need warning to be prepared for the accidents, I think you presumed the cm was going to toilet train your child, definately not her job, but it is her job to support you and the child when the child has shown that they are reliable enough to stay dry at least for a couple of hours.

Reading through again, I really think you are being unreasonable, this is her home, carpets, floor etc. Easy for the nursery to mop up and they don't really care what goes on the floor.
Also in the afternoon he is more likely to have accidents as he will be tired etc.
Have a good go yourself over the weekend and see how you get on, get him reliable at nursery, before trying to get him reliable at the childminders, and provide the nappy pants rather than pullups, theyre cheaper and not so tight.

Wow, I'm really surprised by some of the replies here. If a mindee is full-time then how can it be "mum's job" so bluntly? Do mums have to take time off work to do it? My ds is full-time at a CM who has been a star working with us to potty train him. It has taken much longer than two weeks, so perhaps you'd say he wasn't ready, but we both believed he was and she's been brilliantly persistent and patient. I've never got the impression that it wasn't her job - I'd have thought it most definitely was. Not solely, but for the times when he is in her care, of course. Don't know what I'd have done if she'd refused - I can't take time off and still pay her, and though we did start during her annual hol, he was still having plenty of 'accidents' by the time he went back to her, and still does have a few. Anyhow, not criticising, it's your rules of course. I just didn't realise my CM wasn't typical. If it was a nanny, would your response be different?

dixia i think it depends on the cm as i am quite happy to potty train first,i have numurous yrs of experience.i have one mindee who arrives in a nappy and goes home in a nappy but during day he is potty trained he is now 2.9yrs i did this over thye summer.he took to it like a duck to water,but i do have cm friends who think its the parents job!!!so we are all different

I'm really surprised at some of the opinions expressed too! I never for one minute thought the OP came across as wanting the CM to "do the job for her". She stated she thought it was fair enough about the childminder saying do it at home over weekend first (fair enough) but to have to provide a potty??? I could understand that if the Child had a big issue with using another potty but....sheesh. I also see it as a punishment to the LO, if he has 2 accidents that's it?? It just doesn't seem very helpful to me

Yes, maybe she is unsure of how to do it etc, but surely she can say "oh right we'll have to help each other with this one as I've never done it before!! But if you can be as prepared as possible and provide me with as much as you can that would be great" I don't see how she can say she wants him in pull ups if that is not what you want to use. I would never use them, you may as well stick to nappies.

replied on other thread as well but most cm/nannies are happy to CONTINUE the pt, but parents need to start it off, as Op said she would

Thanks for the support, Maxybrown. I do feel slightly victimised by some of the comments here. Danthe4th - I really couldn't care less about her carpets and furniture! If she is so precious about them, then maybe she should find another job to do. She has chosen to be a child minder, chosen to invite children into her house and chosen to LOOK AFTER THEM. I think that what she is suggesting will be a detriment to his development and could well result in him going backwards. "Naughty boy, you have had another accident, I'm going to put a nappy on you like a baby". As I am not there, how can I know what she is saying to him? All I can judge her on is what she says to me and I am uncomfortable about what she has said.

By the way - Day 1 of potty training is going very well. Just 2 accidents (both wees) since 7am this morning. 6 successful wees in the potty and 2 poos. Feel very pleased and proud of DS.