au pairs eating dinner with you and DH every night

[HarrietTheSpy]

Do yours do that? Ours does. It's driving me slightly if not interminably mad - I know all about the 'living as a family member' thing nevertheless we need some more space. The thing is, also awkward to say eat with children as the after school nanny in the share we're in doesn't. (Please no questions about our specific childcare arrangements in that regard, it's ocmplicated.)

What can I do? Eating out a couple of times per wk every wk clearly not an option!!! Is there a solution.

New Teacher - thanks for the support. You do get my drift as have others on here and it's very much appreciated.

However, I have to say that I understand where RedTartanLass is coming from on this one too. Hence the reason I haven't said anything yet. I've kind of screwed it up myself by not sorting this out before she arrived. I disagree it's wrong in principle to offer this sort of arrangement but maybe it is important to be upfront about it at the start that way the person can say yea or nay.

One thing the agency has said to us about next time (if there is one and we go with them) is that the Mother's Help route is not necessarily 'live as part of the family.' So, with that description of the role I would probably feel freer to be very specific about our private time. Pricer, etc but something we could consider if we rejig elsewhere.

Ho hum. Am off to do some socialising. Thanks ladies and have a lovely weekend!!

It's nothing like having your own teenager in the house.

i think that lots of aupairs dont realise that the family also need some private time /with and without the children/. we are all 'fed' the usual 'part of the family' stuff and all make assumption of how it it will work - and of course the reality is different.when i first came to the uk as a 20yo ap i found the whole situation very weird. suddenly i was in a house with strangers i was ment to be 'a family' with yet i soon realised that however friendly and close to each other we may become /not very much in this case/ it will never be the same as in one's own family. just bumping into someone in the house suddenly feels strange and you dont know what to say or where to look. i thought it was polite to stay with the family in the room in the evening and rude to do my own thing somewhere else. later during the winter i basicly had no other choice because the kitchen/living room was the only warm room in the house. i wasnt long after i left i came to realise that one of the reason the hostmother wasnt that happy was me not out of the house more. she was a pub and party girl and silently expected me to be the same. i went out to a friends house one night a week and went out during my days off/time off during the day and dont know where else i could have gone or even how as i dont drive.
i THINK taht if you told your ap that however you enjoyed her company you would like one day a week on your own she should understand. perhaps she comes from a backround where it is considered weird not to eat together and were meals are not considered as kind of social time. also it might not appear to her that you need some time alone just the two of you as she might have never see her parents doing such things as eating together or wathing tv together without the kids around.
i feel for you though and hope you manage to find a solution before you go mad. and explain the new ap that you expect her to give you some space ;)

No it's not. You can tell your teenager 'bugger off, you're Dad and I want a bit of time together' but with an ap you are worried you will hurt their feelings.

Maybe suggest to ap that Friday night is going to be your once a week 'date' night and that she should eat with the children that night.

i think that the difference between mothers help an an ap is that thay are usually older and more experienced so they no better than follow you everywhere. thay are not in a strange country for the first time so they know their way around are are more independent.

Thinking of some of the comments on AP World such as 'I have found my second family!!! I think some APs almost see it as a kind of temporary adoption, and I wonder if this should be discouraged. It is transition state between childhood/adolescence and first proper independent job.

Mothers Helps aren't always older/more experienced but do agree they're not in the country for the first time. APs are getting older and older as more people come and do it after uni - a lot of the British APs I knew in Paris were my age or older than me, and I was 22/23, because they were doing it after graduating from a 3 or 4 year degree or as a temporary career break after having worked an office job and realised that having a second language is very useful.

Being an AP is a job, people don't realise this. There is no fluffy agreement about temporarily adopting someone elses child, as Boffinista rightly points out. It's a job. They're paid. They're an employee. They have a contract. Of course you welcome them into the family and help them improve their English but at the end of the day the 'working relationship' needs to go both ways and part of that is knowing when to clear off.

Well put, frakkin.

Frak -I don't think au pairs see it like that yet although I've no doubt what you say is correct these days. You'd struggle to find an agency in the UK or one on the continent who would guide their au pairs in this direction, as well. I think it suits many parents not to be aware of some aspects of how the rules have changed - quite happy with the 2 wk holiday at their discretion regime for example. We're quite prepared to act as employers (at least I am) but the reality is that au pairs aren't necessarily looking for that sort of set up in many cases, they want the huggy feely type.

Caterpillar - I bet a lot of au pairs and ex au pairs could have written that post. It really struck a chord when you said "I didn't know where I'd go..." And lots else was useful to see it from her point of view.

Well, since I've last posted there have been ups and downs. The main thing is DH, though, so there is no real point even discussing strategies for coming to an agreement on some adjustments with her until we agree. On nights like tonight (not up late but another thing) I just find myself feeling nasty and not behaving at all like myself. If we don't have an au pair again it will be due as much to us not being on the same page as anything else.

Thanks again ladies for your advice.

harriet - i wonder whether it's more common then we think, i mean the fact that you and your dh are not 'on the same page' regarding your ap. in my first family it was the same situation as you describe. the father was treating me as more of a guest, was always very polite to me, often treating me with more respect to my needs or feelings that i expected, but was very gratefull for that /because obviously aps are usually very sensitive to everything, even to stuff they would not notice at home/. i knew he could get very cross and bad tempered but never with me. the kind of better behaviour we often save for the 'ouside world'. on the other hand the hostmother saw me as a help and was not much interested in me as a person or how i felt. she still treated with respect, but i could tell, even then, that it does not come naturally. it would have helped if she raised some of the issues i suspect she had.

Hello.
I am in a very similar situation so I thought I'd add my thoughts for what it's worth.
We have a live in nanny (been with us for six months) and she eats dinner with us every night, sits with us in the living room watching tv as long as we do (even though she has tv in her room) rarely goes out, only sometimes at weekends, and I was starting to go a bit crazy with it all as had absolutely no alone time with my husband other than when we go to our bedroom.

Then I thought about the other side of things; she is absolutely lovely, she is wonderful with our daughter, she is far away from her family (she is not from UK) and living with strangers (however friendly we are, we are not her family nor her friends, and it must be strange for her) and I decided not to say anything after all. This maybe a wimp's way to handle things but I don't want to upset her in any way or to make her feel unwelcome in, what is temporarely at least, her home. I know that it sounds nuts given that my husband and I have very little time to ourselves but we can always go to our bedroom if we want to be alone after all, or go out (and yes I know it costs more as would have to pay her for babysitting). I think in the large scheme of things it is a small price to pay for a few more months (she is staying for six more months) given that she is an absolute sweetheart, loves our daughter dearly and looks after her really well. So I will not rock the boat but when we interview for the next nanny will mention that we need time alone etc. (This didn't occur to me when we interviewed for our current nanny as I never thought that any young person would want to spend evening watching tv and doing crosswords with two old farts that dh and I are!)

This would be impossible in our family - meal times are really sacrosanct time for intimate family conversations, and an au pair being present would wreck that.

As others have said, you live and learn and you should tell any future au pairs that they should eat alone (or possibly with the children, if applicable).

I am a great believer in the nine o clock watershed for live in help of any description. That is our time, and in their contracts.

Nine o'clock? That's very generous! We eat dinner at around 8 o'clock and I would hate to have anyone around and under my feet when the children/DP get here.

My DSSs have an au pair at their mother's house and she is driving them insane - they feel it is a huge invasion of their personal space.

andagain
I wonder how many live in nannies do the same. It didn't occur to me this would be the case. What are you planning to say to your next one?

Harriet, I was thinking of something along the lines of: "We of course want you to feel comfortable as this is your home. But one thing we'd like to mention is that, as we both work full time and have very little time to ourselves, we were going to ask that 3-4 times a week we do expect to have the living room to ourselves so we were hoping that you would not mind giving us some space after dinner, from about 8.30-9." I would probably follow with something like "of course you probably have no intention of spending any time with us after your working hours, but just thought I'd mention it..."
Every time I interviewed I told the prospective nannies that if she wanted us to get anything else for her room to make it feel more comfortable for her we will. So I will stress that in this context. It's as blunt as I am capable of making it.
See, I am a wimp. I know they are our employees but they do live in our home and I have to make sure they are happy with us. Also my DD eats dinner at 5-5.30 and I can't expect our nanny to eat at that time. I think having a live in nanny is not easy but there has to be a bit of give and take on both sides. Sorry for the long winded answer. I do find this issue difficult.

Yes, the eat with the DCs thing is a non-starter for us, for timing and other reasons, as I've said too. Then there's the added complication of preparing two meals virtually at once. So, I've kind of decided that is not the way forward for us either.

One thing a friend suggested, which might work for you too, is saying that when I come home I need soem time to catch up with the children and DH on my own. Please feel free to take a break and then join us for dinner. I am very happy to do the bedtime routine and look forward to it, so this would work logistically for me. I don't think this is an unreasonable request and some au pairs may be really happy with the break!

My issue with DH is that unlike what Blueshoes said, he is almost embarrassed to talk about matters pertaining solely to us at meal times. I came home the other night really wanting to talk about a few things work and friend related - not cringey, I promise - and he kept turning the conversation back to things that interest her, to include her. This was driving me nuts - but of course is not her fault. During the course of our discussion before dinner she kept coming in to the kitchen with various issues as well (not DC related) and instead of just saying, give us a few minutes, it was like we have to address this now. If the latter happens again, I will just say that (although I expect to get a look from DH). Had a word with DH about the other thing - he just doesn't see it as I do.

Your friend's suggestion is really good, I will include that too in future. Our nanny also just used to hang around with me and DD when I got home so basically I didn't get a minute peace. But I must admit it has improved, she now actually goes to a different room (mostly to the computer) as soon as I get home so I get a nice one to one time with my DD before DH gets home.
The thing is I actually think that part of it is that many ap and live in nannies feel it is rude to just disappear straight away when parents get home. I can see thier point kind of.
DH wise, I can see your frustration. I think you will have to agree with him to give it a go at talking about things that don't concern your ap in front of her. And you should feel free to say to ap when she comes in with non-urgent queries "I'll come and talk to you shortly, we just have something to discuss before that" and hopefully she'll get it. I have done it in the past.
PS You are not in London by any chance are you? Your ap and our nanny might get on and go out more together!

We are! East though. Useful or too far from you?

Just a bit, we are in SW.
One thing I would do is suggest to your ap to go to aupairuk.com. Lots of people are on it and our nanny met quite a few people there and thanks to that site she is out more often now. Worth a bash. Seems you and I are monopolising this thread. Email me to [email protected] directly if you want.