Nanny leaving end of March :( When would you start looking for childcare?

[Maria2007loveshersleep]

Unfortunately it's now confirmed that our much loved part-time nanny (has been with us for over a year) will leave end of March as she's leaving the country. She's been really great & it's made me appreciate the benefits of having childcare at home (our DS is now 15 months). I wanted to ask you wise MNetters when you would start looking for new childcare & how to organize the transition?

And what form of childcare would you choose (nanny / CM) taking into account that DS- who will then be 2- will go to nursery part time (3 mornings a week) from september 2010? We also are hoping for some continuity/flexibility in case we have a second child next year. So I suppose we're looking more or less for 3 days from end of March onwards, with a possibility for a bit more depending on circumstances. It all sounds a bit vague / complex atm- including that I don't know what hours I'll be working from February onwards- probably 3 days a week. So was hoping for advice / ideas about how soon to start looking, where to start looking, & actually if anyone is interested in that sort of position

Oh sorry to hear this Maria.
I think that if you are looking at adding to your family, another part time nanny might be what you need.
I don't have much to add, as we've always relied on nursery, which has always worked very well for our family.

Take plenty of time, I'd start looking for another nanny now!

Now?! Oh god that sounds stressful...

It's all quite confusing for the additional reason that I'm about to finish my PhD (working from home) which means that from early spring onwards I'll get a part-time job (aiming for 3 days a week). However, don't yet know what kind of hours I'll have... which is why a part-time nanny who will be able to have a tiny bit of flexibility would be great.

Perhaps a nanny with her own child might work? Or a nannyshare?

No, don't think of it as stressful... I tend to be a last minute person, but perhaps in this situation the best thing to do is to start looking around... An acquaintance of mine has been looking for a nanny for nearly 2 months now.

agree start looking now because of xmas - may take a month+ to find the right nanny

we are in middle of november - many nannies myself included have 2 mths notice, so if you really need to plan 3mths in advance to give you a month to find, inteview, check ref, 2nd interviews and offer job - and then 2mths notice

if you left till beginning of jan, then you have to find the perfect/right nanny in a few weeks for the notice period to tie in

Blondes, thanks for this. Do you mean then that I'd be looking for nannies who are already working somewhere else & who would have to give notice at their current job? Is that what you're saying or am I not getting it?

The way DP & I are thinking of it- we'll offer a job involving 3 days a week (about 24 hours all in all, maybe a bit more), definitely for one year (until DS goes to nursery) with a strong possibility of continuing afterwards if we have a second child. Do you think that sounds ok?

Also: would it make sense for the new nanny to start a bit before (e.g. end of february) our current nanny leaves, e.g. a few hours every week even if it's babysitting work, just to make the transition smoother? or is this a bit OTT on my part?

Final question. Would it make sense to try to find someone with their own child (or a nannyshare) in order to reduce cost? Or would that involve too much confusion, difficult arrangements etc?

Nanny with own child/share can reduce costs a bit but does involve a bit of extra hassle. Not that much though! More in terms of logistics/whether you need a double buggy, who pays for outings, what happens when one child is ill etc. Search threads in this section and you'll come up with a lot of things you may want to consider.

You could well be looking at nannies already working somewhere who want to leave for whatever reason. I think it unlikely that you'd find someone not working somewhere now who would wait until March.

Ok that makes sense. I'll discuss it with dp & start looking asap.

A few more questions:

-what cost would I be looking? Is 10£ gross ph about average for London? (I currently pay 9£ gross ph but my nanny is inexperienced)
-what about cost for nannyshare ph?
-and cost for nanny with own child?
-where's the best place to look (for professional/experienced nannies)? We got very lucky with our current nanny- we found her through personal recommendation & she was inexperienced but wonderful still. It did mean though that for months I spent hours showing her this or that. So this time we'd definitely like to go for an experienced / professional nanny.
-for a nannyshare do you start by finding the family or the nanny?

yes thats what i meant

tbh it is hard/waste of time to overlap the new nanny for a long time - so no reason for new nanny to start end of feb

def worth trying to find a nanny who is also a mum to save costs, though you do needs to think about logstics of double buggy/what happens if nannies child is ill etc

always worth putting an ad on netmums/gumtree/nannyjob but if you dont get any replies/suitable candiates then register with agencies

Thanks again Blondes. Well it would be great to have our new nanny come in a few times to get to know DS (perhaps as I said evening babysitting or a few hours for 1 or 2 weeks) so that the transition is a bit smooth. DS is very close to our current nanny & I don't want to make it too hard on him

I'll put an ad on the sites you suggest Blondes, but I really would like some advice on the questions I asked above from anyone who can help, particularly regarding costs. We live in London if that helps.

Depends where in London and how much experience you want your nanny to have, qualifications etc.

Nanny with own child will be a couple of pounds cheaper per hour, but some won't take the salary cut. Nanny share I asked for (and got) a third added to my basic salary split between the parents, but I've since discovered from another thread that my basic salary was probably fairly bargainous at the time!

London nw. (fairly centrally in the NW areas). I think I'll also look for CMs in the area some of which may have an availability in march... But if it ends up that we can afford it (depending on cost / possibility of nannyshare etc) I would prefer a nanny to a CM I think.

Gulp. Nanny may actually be leaving very very soon!! She told me she found a job opportunity in her own field (she's been doing nannying until she finds something in her field) & has an interview tomorrow. But the position was 'made' for her if you see what I mean so there's a great chance she'll get it .

So I guess I'm then looking for a new nanny sooner rather than letter....

I've already put some ads up (Gumtree etc) but I've said in them that we want someone for March. Provided our nanny gets the job (I'll know by wednesday) then I suppose I'll change the ads.

I really very urgently would like an idea about 2 things.

1. What pay should I offer? It's for london NW11, & we would really like a native speaker (english) & someone who is willing/able to stay permanently, i.e. a professional nanny with experience.

2. what does everyone think about nanny with own child? The responses I've got so far from my ads are mostly from 'older' nannies (mid thirties) with loads of experience but with their own child, who want to work part-time. It sounds good to me, but I'm sure there might be complications. One particular nanny (seems very experienced & very nice) sounds suitable but told me she would like 9-10£ net per hour. Does that sound a lot or fair enough?

I'm not in London so hard to know what rates are in that area, though I suspect they are somewhat higher than in my area (West Surrey, outside M25). So given that the job is part-time, live-out I would suspect you will be looking at £11-£12 gross an hour. Does that seem about right based on what other jobs are being advertised in the area?

Given that the job is part-time it may not appeal to very many nannies who don't have their own children. As what would they be doing the rest of the time... they would presumably need other work.

Have you got a fixed number of hours per week? 24 hours was mentioned earlier... is that going to be the case? Knowing this will enable me to do calculations on an annual salary basis, which I find easier than doing net per hour!

10 net per hour, based on 24 hours a week is around £15,300 gross per year. Which to you as employer would cost you £16527 per year once adding on Employers NI. It is around £12.26 gross an hour. I'd therefore say it seems a bit high given they are bringing their own child as well. However your choices may be quite limited, given the hours and your location. So it may come down to how many people apply and how much they want. Have you put any salary indication in the advert?

Remember: Vital to agree salary as GROSS not Net, given that you may not be the nannies sole employer.

tbh as your nanny has told you she is going to leave and find a job in her own field, i would look for a nanny to start now (well 4/8weeks time - whatever notice is)

or you may find that she will find a job,give notice and you will be stuck without childcare before march

do i take it that she isnt really a nanny/has no/not much experience?

i do feel that a nanny who takes her own child should earn less than a nanny who doesnt,as she wont be giving 100% attention to your child/ren

so to me the nannies you have seen who want £9/10nett does seem a lot

Remember that a nanny bringing her own child with her is in effect a nanny share. If you were sharing her with another family youprobably both expect to pay about 60% of the usual salary, giving her a 20% raise for the hassle of working for two families. So, I would offer %60-70% of the going rate for a nanny who wants to bring her own child with her.

Some nannies will turn their noses up at the idea that they are worth less because they are bringing a child. But, the truth is a nanny with a child in tow is not going to give your kids the same level of attention, is going to consume more of your food, will put more wear and tear on your house, will probably not be willing to come to work when her child (or yours) has a contageous illness. There is a fair amount of hassle with a nanny who has a child and I would expect a 30%-40% reduction in salary for hassle.

The best way to get your cost down is to get a live-in nanny. Is this an option?

maria only wants a nanny for 3 days-so live in probably isnt pratical

OK thanks for your replies. And here's the answers to your questions:

1. Nannynick, we're looking realistically at about 27 hours per week (3 days of 9 hours). We might increase to 30 hours a week in the near future, but that's unclear atm. We might even need to increase more (again unclear) but I think 27 hours initially is what we want.

2. Blondes, our current nanny, who we pay 9£ gross per hour & who works 20 hours a week is not experienced, no. In fact it's her first nannying job & we hired her through a personal recommendation, first because we were inexperienced & didn't know exactly what we wanted & second because we really really liked her. Obviously we understand that 9£ per hour gross is not realistic for this part of london.

3. AtheneNoctua: Live in is not an option, no. DP & I both work part-time & hope to continue this way so we need a nanny for 3 days a week & the rest of the time DP & I will look after DS.

4. So as for pay. It's all pretty confusing to me because the nannies that have contacted me (through email so far, will meet my first one in person later today) are mentioning net figures. For experienced nanny with child- I was told 9-10£ ph NET. For experienced nanny without child- I was told 12.5-13£ ph GROSS. I need to have a figure in my mind that I can offer them (and so that I won't agree to something that's unrealistic & we then struggle to afford). We really do want someone experienced / english-speaking (as first language) & able to work long-term, particularly as we don't want to change if we have a second child. So it's important to make the right choice & agree to a salary that is reasonable both to the nanny & to us.

"For experienced nanny with child- I was told 9-10£ ph NET. For experienced nanny without child- I was told 12.5-13£ ph GROSS"

wouldnt both work out the same roughly? or did you get the nett/gross mixed up?

unfortunally agencies always seem to talk in nett and not gross, so when i go for an interview and say i want xxx gross a day/week/month/year etc - the family look blank and ask what that is nett

we cant win either way

i normally say i want xxxnett which works out roughly xxx gross so family have a rough idea

This net salary thing is such a pain isn't it. I do wish more nannies would understand that their job salary should be discussed in the same way that all (well certainly most) other jobs.

Perhaps having some calculations will help you... will base these on 30 hours a week, so you know that if they start on 27 hours then the amount will be a bit less.

30 hours a week, 52 weeks of the year = 1560 hours per year. I know a year isn't strictly 52 weeks (google says it's 52.177457) but it's close enough.

Lets start with 10 gross per hour and work up.
10 x 1560 = 15600 gross
If using all their tax allowance: 12687.65 net = £8.13 net per hour
If using none of their tax allowance:
11394.45 net = £7.30 net per hour

1265.28 employers NI

11 x 1560 = 17160 gross
13764.05 net = £8.82 net per hour
12470.85 net = £7.99 net per hour

Employers NI £1464.96

12 x 1560 = 18720
14840.45 net £9.51 net per hour
13547.25 net £8.68 net per hour

Employers NI £1664.64

13 x 1560 = 20280 gross
15916.85 net £10.20 net per hour
14623.65 net £9.37 net per hour

Employers NI £1864.32

Well if it's about the same (& since it's a bit more than we can afford anyway) I'll have to negotiate a lower rate for nanny with child eg 10£ ph gross. Does that sound fair?

I would suggest calculating what salary you can afford to pay... then advertising the job at that salary.

If the nanny only has this job, then it looks as though £9-£10 net per hour would be in the range of £11.50-£13 gross per hour.

I feel it's fine to negotiate a lower rate if they bring their own child to work with them but I don't have my own child!

Personally I tend to try to avoid all the salary negotiation stuff. For my current job I used an agency which states Gross salaries, so the parents were already dealing in gross salary and the job was advertised with a gross annual salary that I was happy with. So much easier I felt. I like keeping things as simple as possible... though I do appreciate that others will want to negotiate.

you are a mine of info nick - but i have said this many times

to an extent i wouldnt negotiate- i need to earn a certain amount to pay my mortgage/bills so if the job isnt paying enough, then no point in me going to an interview - but again as nick said if you use an agency then you know what the salary is

Tbh I wouldn't want to negotiate too much either. I've calculated & the maximum we could afford to pay is 10£ ph gross. I know that restricts our choices so perhaps it's the case that a nannyshare / nanny with own child is the way to go but I'm scared of the complications.