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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Time to say goddbye?

37 replies

OFSTEDoutstanding · 19/05/2009 09:58

Hi am feeling really today. Have just had 2 weeks off work as I am currently only minding one mindee and he went on holiday. I have posted about him before and the problems I have with his parents and him sometimes. He came back yesterday and cried solidly from 7.30-1 when I dropped him at nursery. There was no reason for the crying and I tried to ask what was wrong and he wouldn't tell me. He cried whenever it was a meal time and this started off my dd (aged 8 months) he is almost 3. Am wondering if it is for attention. I know its not because he has just had 2 weeks off as was doing this before he went too. My problem is I do this job not only because I enjoy it but because I am able to look after my own children this way (sorry to say but after 16 years in childcare I would prefere to do it myself I have met some real rotters over the years!) My ds (3 1/2) has now asked if he can go to pre-school every day so he doesn't have to see x and also if he can not go to toddlers so he can go to 'school' with his friends and not with x. I am really because I am feeling that I want to be with my dc who don't want to be here because of x. What would you do he is my only mindee and I need the money? I tried to talk to mum this morning but she couldn't get away quick enough and he was already crying. I have a new mindee in Sept and another one has asked for a Sept start which I have said I will get back to her about as x is due to go to pre-school but mum forgot to ask for a place as now he is on waiting list. Mum has told me once he gets a place he will be using his 5 sessions and I will be dropping down. This other possible mindee would be 2 days week and the definite new starter is full time. What do you think is it time to say goodbye to this mindee based on the fact he is making my dc miserable and my dh wont come home from work until he knows he has gone as can't be doing with the tears? Or do I persevere and see if he gets better (have had him since 5 months so not a settling in issue either. Would love to hear your comments TIA

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OFSTEDoutstanding · 19/05/2009 09:58

Whoops should be goodbye

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tommypickles · 19/05/2009 10:20

Absolutley time to say goodbye!!!! I too have my own little boy (3.5) at home with me whilst I mind, I do it quite simply for him, so I don't have to go out to work, like you.
I would definatley give notice, I know you say you need the money, but you will at least know that it's not forever if you have one signed up for sept. just think of it as a long holiday, some time to spend just you and your son. Is your son staring big school in sept? My son is, and if I was having the same problems as you I would definately give notice so I could spend some quality time with my son before he goes to school, you'll never get these young years back, why spend it looking after someone elses child who is making your family miserable.
Good luck hun x

OFSTEDoutstanding · 19/05/2009 10:44

Am sat here at the mo in tears!! He is crying and wont tell me why earlier I worked out it was because he wanted his drink which was a metre away from him on the coffee table and then he cried because he wanted to play with the pushchair, he is the only one in the house other than my dd who is 8 months and he knows whatever he wants out he can get it is all in the same room as him just a short walk away. He has woken dd up with his crying now. I just don't know what to do, but I can't go til Sept on no money

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tommypickles · 19/05/2009 11:53

oh you poor thing! can you talk to the parents? surely they must have to take steps to improve his behaviour! i you tried being firm with him and letting him know that his behaviour is unacceptable, sometimes with other peoples kids we're just too nice all the time, then they think they can walk all over you. tbh i have never had a problem like this with the kiddies i mind, i'm a fair and fun person but they know when they've crossed the line, so i rarely have any probs. do you think he thinks he's in charge of you, what could you do to make him see he can't behave like this

littlelamb · 19/05/2009 11:55

Why are you on the PC if you are meant to be minding him? I don't want to be rude, I was on your other thread, but if he is doing it for attention...

JenniPenni · 19/05/2009 12:17

She's on her PC hoping to find some help!

It's a really difficult decision to make... but for me my own kids happiness would always come first. They don't want to be at home.... because of another child... alarm bells! I know it'll be hard to say goodbye as you need the income.. butIwould say goodbye, your kids will be much happier immediately, and you could advertise for another child immed..??

SammyK · 19/05/2009 12:22

My sister's DS cries like this (same age) wanting something within his reach, at meal times etc, she has a baby too and finds it really stressful and that's her own dcs.

Is he a FT mindee?

I would give notice TBH, and make a little money any which way I could. e.g. weekend shop work, childcare bank staff, EBAY, car boots, etc. Would any september mindees like to do one session a week? Are there any minders off on their hols? Do SS need sessional childcarers?

Would rather we all beans on toast than had an unhappy DS and a DP who would rather be at work than home!

I have been in this situation with family being unhappy and it's just not worth it!

OFSTEDoutstanding · 19/05/2009 12:24

Thanks Jenni am on PC to find help, my pc in the same room as him and I was trying to play with him but still he sat crying, I try to message when I can as get more help during work hours

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OFSTEDoutstanding · 19/05/2009 12:27

Thanks Sammi he is currently sat in highchair (I am next to him on laptop) crying I am not sure if this is because he is still hungry or doesn't want what I have given him or is done eating he wont tell me . He has however managed to upset my dd so much she has refused her lunch so another afternoon of moody dd for me because once she out of high chair she wont eat anything else, a picky eater at best of times

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LisaD1 · 19/05/2009 12:33

Hiya,

I think you should give notice to x's parents. I know it's hard as I had to do the same. I had a little one who was exactly the same and it used to upset my own dd so much that somedays (actually most days) I would be in floods of tears by the time my hubby got home, it had a really negative impact on my homelife and it's just not worth it. I persevered for 6 months and no matter what I tried it didn't work. I now have an adorable and very happy mindee and the difference this has made to both my dd and our homelife is amazing.

Good luck :-)

tommypickles · 19/05/2009 12:38

stop running around after him!! Tell him calmly and quietly that his behaviour is upsetting you and the other baby and he must stop it now, do it so he knows you're in control! what do the parents say you can and can't do with regards to disapline? do they use time out or anything, or maybe take toys away until he's good? Perhaps you need to do something he's familiar with, because if there is really nothing wrong with him then he's just being naughty! I don't think we're talking about a child who is actually upset are we? I would be inclined to make him a reward chart...right now.....and tell him that when he fills up the chart with stickers he can choose a special little toy from the shop, and he can have his first sticker when he stops crying!! Failing that get the mother to collect him.......say he hasn't stopped crying all day so there must be something wrong with him.....and start a fresh tomorrow with some new tactics ie reward chart.

OFSTEDoutstanding · 19/05/2009 13:07

Sounds good but tbh don't think he has the understanding for a reward chart. I have just managed to calm him while he was in the highchair and I said x why were you crying and he said 'yes cry highchair' I then rephrased the question in about 4 different ways and all he said was yes. I got him out of the highchair and he is now making a train track and every now and then he will look round the room and make crying noises (no tears though)

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tommypickles · 19/05/2009 13:38

OH I thought he was 3, if he is then I'm sure he will understand.....sometimes when the kids act up and don't use words it suits them because they know that they'll be treated as a baby or a kid that doesn't understand and that suits them cos they get their own way, kids are very smart. If this kiddie is nearly 3 though do you think there may be some other issues......thinking about the fact that he doesn't seem to be able to talk etc. Do you think perhaps he's being babied a little too much....why does he sit in highchair? is that what he's used to at home? Maybe if he has trouble with his speech he's just getting very frustrated that he can't say what he wants/needs or like to do?

OFSTEDoutstanding · 19/05/2009 14:04

There is no speech trouble he just chooses not to talk some days. The reason he is still in a highchair is that he makes so much mess at meal times it is easier as when he has decide he has finished eating he tips it all over table or throws on floor

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underpaidandoverworked · 19/05/2009 14:26

Sounds like he is used to getting away with behaviour like this at home and does it for attention - hence the chucking the food on the floor. He could be doing that also as a protest against being put in a high chair - I agree he is maybe a bit old for a high chair.

I would have a chat with parents - don't let her scuttle off - and find out if he's like this at home and how they deal with it. Agree to use the same behaviour techniques with him - it soon stops. I had to work with parents of 3yr old last year, behaviour exactly as you describe - we cracked it between us.

underpaidandoverworked · 19/05/2009 14:30

If they refuse to discuss it, give notice. This job is hard enough now, you don't need to be unhappy at work because of one child. Once it starts affecting your family life, its definitely time for something to give - don't let it be your sanity and your relationship with dh and dcs . They must always come first.

fridayschild · 19/05/2009 17:57

DS1 was supposed to go to a childminder for 3 short days each week when I was on maternity leave with DS2, to make things easier for me recovering from a c/section. He cried all the time he was there and after 4 weeks she said he wasn't settling, was upsetting the other children and really it was time to say good bye. I respected her decision at the time and was glad she'd told me. She could have taken my money and I wouldn't have known how upset my son was. I think the parents should be pleased you've brought this up - I know I was.

atworknotworking · 19/05/2009 20:12

Outstanding - Your post reminded me of an article I read a few years ago, similar age, crying when dropped off, very hard to calm down etc, I don't know anything about child phsycology but it made sense when I read it, Basically child was rushed from pillar to post early on by rushing parents who were always running late, driving in all directions trying to get to minder on time in rush hour traffic etc, they tried an experiment whereby over a few days (parent took some time off) they got the child up a little earlier, made sure it had breakfast, dressed etc, drove to minders (unhurried) but didn't go in, then went home again, this was done over a few days doing exactly the same thing each day, driving exactly the same route, with parent pointing out familiar landmarks on the way, it worked when child went back, it was a lot calmer and over time had no probs at all.

I don't know what situation your mindees parents are in but if they are in a constant rush sometimes their stress passes onto the little ones who deal with it by being distressed, might be worth asking some questions about routine?

Good luck I hope things get better soon

Oligo · 19/05/2009 23:19

Oh it is really sad to you tommypickles blaming the child being for being naughty or having something wrong with him and that he needs to be good. He is clearly unhappy and he sees something wrong in his life. He needs to learn to deal with this and perhaps ofstedoutstanding can help. You could be the one important person in his life who could try to understand his perspective- whatever that is.

Yes part of his crying might be to get things that he physically can do himself but for a child to feel so helpless and cry all day they are clearly comminicating how they are finding life difficult. That they don't feel in control of their environment. He is directing his crying at things e.g. drink, buggy, but that is maybe to make sense of his persistent need to cry/make noise.

Surely he needs to be made to feel secure- this totally includes sensible boundaries but he needs to calm down and be happy inside himself not because of external rewards. Has the nursery also noticed anything?

My initial instinct from what i have read is that he is lacking significant, consistent and positve one to one interaction/attention, perhaps at home.

Make sure he realises that you have noticed how upset he is, tell him calmly that he must feel really unhappy to cry/shout/whatever so much, that you can see how he just really wants you to help with whatever. i would say all this quite a lot in different ways. He is still young and it will help draw his attention to how he feels/is being but in a non-threatening/judgemental way. As an experiemental short term measure I would try to anticipate what he wants before he cries about it too long and give attention/affection when he is not 'asking'.

If you feel you and your family can't cope with this (it is clearly upsetting you) you should absolutely not continue but if you view it as a challenge for a few more months it might be really rewarding if you can support him through it all.

thebody · 20/05/2009 08:20

underpaid has it spot on, if you feel so bad and your own dcs are suffering then give notice.. you have done your best but you cant parent him, thats not your job.. good luck..

Baisey · 20/05/2009 19:31

"I have just managed to calm him while he was in the highchair and I said x why were you crying and he said 'yes cry highchair' I then rephrased the question in about 4 different ways and all he said was yes. I got him out of the highchair and he is now making a train track and every now and then he will look round the room and make crying noises (no tears though)"
HE WANTS YOU TO PLAY WITH HIM FOR CHRISTS SAKE! AHHH

TheOtherMaryPoppinsDiets · 20/05/2009 21:28

Have you talked with parents? Has anyhting happened? Was he like this before you had the hols - takes a while to settle back in gain after a break I know. What is he like at home?

From what you have said he does appear to be being babied somewhat, in a highchair for eg - a 3yo doesn't need ot be in a highchair. He doesan't sound as if he has great speech either which will add to frustration he has. TBF he sounds as if he might be bored. What's a typical days activities? Do you get out?

3yo boys don't cry endlessly unless there is a problem of some kind.

I think you have reached the end of the road with this little boy - with respect I think he needs a different setting/CM who is more able to give him the attention he needs/deserves.

redandgreensocks · 20/05/2009 23:06

What radiates out from your post is you and your family now really dislike and resent this young boy.This is sad as you have been his carer for a large part of his life but you really need to get out as this is not good for him or you.

Some children are definately more challenging to care for and do cry more than others over seemingly minor things.He is only 3 which can be reason enough but there may possibly be other issues. This is surely where your childcare qualifications kick in.Do you suspect there may be more to this crying? Does he have other issues such as sensory?

When he is constantly crying you really need to do something different like get out for a walk to the park,run around the garden,cuddle and read a book,just play one to one with him with his trains.It is hard when children cry.

It sounds as if you don't have this flexibility because of your own baby and therefore your mindee has to fit more around your own children's schedules.Some children this works with but others need much more 1 to 1 individual attention.

He should not be in a highchair at 3 just because he makes a mess.You must know this.

He really does sound like he has communication difficulties (he should be able to express why he is crying) and this is why he is just crying.Have you looked into this and any other issues as I mentioned above and discussed it with his mother?

You do need to sit down ASAP to properly speak to his mother and discuss all this along with anything she and the nursery says and give her your advice on what he needs (would he benefit from 1:1 such as a nanny caring alongside nursery) and then give notice.

thebody · 20/05/2009 23:46

I think Redandgreensocks is right and you should give notice..

yes its sad that your family now resent the child but quite understandable.

to the non childminders out there you must understand that it is a very intense and sometimes lonely job to do.
You cant just hand over a crying child or go off and have a break like you could in a nursery situation.

As a cm I am lucky all my mindees are adorable, but if I had one that constantly upset other mindees and my own children then I would have to give notice.
Also parents can be very reluctant to discuss behaviour issues, even with qualified school teachers, let alone childminders. Good luck Outstanding..

alibubbles · 21/05/2009 09:58

I have posted on the other thread about this. I think the childminder needs to do some Behaviour management training to help her understand why the child is like this.

You say you have been a nursery nurse etc, for many years, so you should be able to cope with this easily as a 'professional'

Give notice for the child's sake, not yours.