Nanny seems a bit depressed -- what are the signs and at what point...

[nannymopesalot]

would you do something about it? And what exactly would you do.

Yes, I have gone a changed my name for this. Partly because I want good sound unbiased advise but mostly to protect my nanny, whom I don't want to be too hard on.

Genreally speaking, I like her, she works hard (usually), and the kids like her.

But...

Since breaking up with her boyfriend (he did the breaking up) she has been suffering from insomnia, her attention to detail (largely but not exclusively attention to tidying up), and sort her general level of enthusiasm has dropped. I think she is probably showing some classic signs of depression. But, honestly, Im not really sure what those are.

And a tiny littl part of me is wondering at what point this behaviour becomes a risk to the welfare of my kids, whom she sometimes looks after for a three or four day stretch on her own.

Perhaps it is just a phase and not really anything to worry about. But I wondered if any employers or nannies out there could share any experience.

If you know who I am, please don't reveal my identity, mostly for the protection of my nanny's identity, not mine.

When I say three or four day stretch, I mean through the night, not just the days.

She sounds very sad about the break-up . Can you suggest - as her employer, with her welfare as well as that of your children at heart - she sees her GP?

I don't think this is really just about the break up. (incidentally, they dated for about 3 months so not a very long relationship)

But I think the break up may have aggraveated something that was already there.

Or maybe I am overreacting. That is a distinct possibility as I know next to nothing about depression.

It's probably best not to do any diagnosis yourself, but to encourage her to go to her GP as much as you possibly can.

how long ago was the break up?

If she didn't expect it or see it coming, it probably was incredibly traumatic. Don't think this necessarily means she's depressed. She could just be struggling with the break up of a relationship, which a lot of people do.

Could you afford for her to have a little break or holiday? Perhaps she could go and visit a friend or her family?

Depression Factsheet from MIND.

I have bent over backwards trying to make her life easier in the last month or so. I have made concessions for her I've never even thought about for previous nannies.

There comes a point when I need her to do the job I hired her to do. And, there must come a point when I have to choose what is best for my kids over what is best for the nanny. I guess what I need to know is whether nanny's state of mind is in fact putting her best interests in conflict with my children's best interests.

Anna, the GP suggestion is tricky because if she is not depressed (or doesn't think she is) then she might take great offense to the suggestion. So, I'd sort of like to be a bit more sure of the situation before I go there.

You don't have to suggest she is depressed. Say that you have noticed changes in her behaviour etc and you'd feel like a bad employer if you didn't encourage her to take herself along to the GP and see whether anything is wrong.

Have your children noticed anything, btw? Do they seem different?

Thanks for the link, Scummy.

I could put a lot of ticks on that list -- not on everything but probably about 3/4 of it. (self harming and suicide I would not tick, but irritability, lack of motivation, and difficulty remembering things would all get ticks)

How many ticks does one hoave to put for depression to be present I wonder?

being restless and agitated
waking up early, having difficulty sleeping, or sleeping more
feeling tired and lacking energy; doing less and less
using more tobacco, alcohol or other drugs than usual
not eating properly and losing or putting on weight
crying a lot
difficulty remembering things
physical aches and pains with no physical cause
feeling low-spirited for much of the time, every day
being unusually irritable or impatient
getting no pleasure out of life or what you usually enjoy
losing interest in your sex life
finding it hard to concentrate or make decisions
blaming yourself and feeling unnecessarily guilty about things
lacking self-confidence and self-esteem
being preoccupied with negative thoughts
feeling numb, empty and despairing
feeling helpless
distancing yourself from others; not asking for support
taking a bleak, pessimistic view of the future
experiencing a sense of unreality
self-harming (by cutting yourself, for example)
thinking about suicide.

I think you should concentrate on how she is doing her job rather than worrying about whether she has depression or not, tbh. If you find she is weepy and forlorn in response to your normal boss instructions then that's an opening to express your concerns about her health but otherwise it's her business really. I'd just just say hey babycakes, chin up and look after my babies, please and be very kind but quite firm in pointing out anything that's amiss in her performance so you don't brood and get peeved about things not getting done.

5 or more = likely depression, according to the link.

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Depression is over a prolonged period of time though and without continuing external causes.

Restless/agitated - you have a new baby
Sleeping - you have a baby who needs feeding
Tired - you've done some fairly hefty physical activity, your hormones are haywire, you're sleep deprived and if BFing you're expending a lot of energy on nourishment for baby
More tobacco/alcohol/drugs - assuming you've not done anything for 9 months then anything more than nothing is more than usual
Not eating properly - no time! And weight change is an inevitable consequence of giving birth
Crying a lot - blame the persky hormones
Memory problems - again pesky hormones

In someone who hasn't given birth (ie. had a very stressful experience and is under continued pressure) those things would be signs that something is wrong. Yes, nanny has had a traumatic experience but it's over and she should be moving on. If she isn't then it would worry me.

Is there anything else which may have been worrying her? Does she come from overseas, could she be experiencing a second or third wave of culture shock? Have your children been through any important transitions recently and therefore needed handling differently? Are they entering a stage that she has no experience of?

Re: her suitability to do the job. I know that I went through a month or so where I probably exhibited a lot of those symptoms shortly after I moved to France and my DP was deployed and work got very tough because my charge was diagnosed with additional needs that I had no experience of handling. It was a combination of factors which brought me down but it only lasted a couple of weeks. During that time I did continue doing my job but I found it very hard to remain up-beat, I felt quite insecure and I found long periods of sole charge (more than 48 hours) very difficult because I didn't have time to collapse and cry. Crying was very therapeutic! More than a couple of months of this behaviour and alarm bells would ring for me.

More things to consider - no need to answer these questions btw!

Have you and she had any disagreements recently? Even things which may seem trivial to you.

If I were you I'd take some professional advice about what responsibilities as an employer you have towards an employee with health issues.

Another thought - my sister got quite depressed when her children were small and her DH travelled a lot for work and she had sole charge of her three children, in a foreign country with no family support. And they were her children and it was her own home.

Maybe your nanny is finding the demands of the job wearisome? Sole charge nanny for 3/4 days at a time is a very big job.

Scummy, I think you are right. My focus should be on her job performance. Anything else is not really my business. The problem is that her work is suffering and I am pondering why. But, the truth is the problem at hand is her work. I don't think she is unfit for work. I just think the quality of work is not what it once was. And the boyfriend is probably only one factor in the mix.

However, if there are any employers of nannies out ther who have had nannies who possibly suffered from depression I would still like to hear your experience. Or, of course, nannies who have suffered from depression.

As I said - I went through a depressed phase, it didn't last long enough for it to really count as depression but it was VERY out of character for me because I'm usually almost unbearably positive. Will happily talk if you think perspective would be helpful.

I don't think you can really separate out life from work when it's as personal a job as being a live in nanny (which I'm assuming is the case because you seem to know about the insomnia and she has long periods of sole charge). Just saying "foucs on the job" may be perceived as a little bit harsh. When someone is feeling down they either need to be told to buck up or treated with sympathy. Sympathy rarely backfires but being told to buck up your ideas can because it makes you feel like the person telling you to buck up hasn't noticed that you're deeply unhappy and not being lazy on purpose/they haven't noticed how awful you're feeling. You may be her employer but you're also in the (un)fortunate position of being closer than just her employer ISWIM.

english governess at gmail dot com if you do want to hear from a nanny who was down!

I think it all depends upon how good her performance was before: - was she good enough before all this to justify the support you need to give her now? Do you think she can pull out of this? And how long has she been with you?

which probably sounds a bit harsh, and apologies if so, but if someone was never that bubbly/glass-half-full etc to begin with then I would guess that (A) my level of commitment might not be that solid, and (B) I would estimate that if the person was quiet or resrved or whatever to begin with, then the chances of her pulling out of it (without being prepared herself to make a big effort) are possibly not as high as they would have been had she been a positive-type person to start with. All of which would count against her.

From a personal point of view you can probably sympathise and to a point empathise, but the relationship you have is a professional one and you need to treat it as such. Which means that you should support her of course, but should still insist that she performs to a competant standard - that doesn't mean telling her to buck up, but it also doesn't mean that you should indulge her (which probably wouldn't help someone in this instance, I guess, but I am no expert). Teh line between work (must still get done to a reasonable standard ) and personal (if she is a live-in then she will need support form you as a 'big sister' or whatever) needs to be a clear one. If she does turn out to be depressed then as a responsible employer you should consider signing her off sick for a period (whether or not this is payable at levels above SSP would depend on your contract)

If she is live-in then I would try the approach of lettign her know that you have noticed she seems a little out of sorts and perhaps inviting her to lunch (without the kids) to discuss it, but - aside from that - I would still mention if her work slides (she may not even have noticed).

Does she have any support network locally?

I think that you should be worrying about her performance and not her state of mind as much. At the moment I'm really down, tired and feeling alone constantly, but I never let the kids onto that because my job is to look after them and I do that. MB has noticed coincidentally enough but that's only because I spoke to her about it. We're here to do our jobs and not let our personal lives get in the way of that.

That's just my opinion though, I find shutting off my emotions quite easy, especially in regards to my boyfriend because we've always been long distance (he's now even further away though and I haven't seen him in two months ) but even if it was bringing me down that much, I still wouldn't let it affect my job!

if she has broken up with her bf, she prob does feel down, though prob not depressed enpough to see her doctor/get antidepressants etc

do you feel that you can have a chat with her, and ask if anything is wrong/you have noticed she isnt enjoying her job so much etc

can you change your hours so that she isnt on her own for 3/4days- which sometimes can be hard work obv depending on the ages of your children

are they young or are they old enough for you to talk to/ask them if they had a good day/what was nanny like today etc?

I agree with ScummyMummy that whether she has a medical condition or not is none of your business, but her performance at work is. And as her employer, you do have some responsibility for her.
Maybe you could tell her you've noticed a difference in her work, and is there something wrong? Anything you could do to help?

I only have a single experience of a nanny. I don;t think she was depressed, but after she resigned, I found out through one of her nanny friends that she was going through some serious personal problems which was effecting her work. She was from a foreign country, so that probably had an impact too.

Yep I agree a medical condition isn't relevant, how she performs in her job is, I would stear away from the "think you might have depression" angle and tell her that you would like to do a contract review or performance update just as any employer would do at regular intervals, keep it professional, you are her boss sit down and review her role, you will prob find that she will open up then which will give you the opportunity to assess a) if you can offer help b) her suitablity for filling the role you need when you get the facts you can make a more informed decision.