Does/would/should having a partner who smokes affect your CM business?

[sparkle12mar08]

And do you have or are there any (ncma?, ofsted?) policies in place to set out standards etc?

The background - my cm's partner smokes, though never in the house and I do believe her on this. In two years I've never noticed the house itself smelling of smoke, or of too much air freshner. However on at least three previous occasions my elder child has come home with his clothes or hair smelling of stale smoke. I know what this smells like - both my parents smoked. It's not cooking smells, exhaust smells or anything else. It's stale smoke.

The third time it happened we spoke to her about it and she was predictably shocked and uncomfortable, anyone would be, hell we were. The previous two times we stewed in embarassed silence, as you do But we moved on and all tried to work out how this could be happening. My own theory is that the partner is coming home from smoking at work and hanging contaminated outdoor clothes up and our children's coats are picking it up (it's almost always on the coat or hat, and changing bag). I think this because the smoke is not fresh and not particularly heavy, I don't think I belive (or don't want to believe?) that they are around the smoking when it's actually happening.

The situation now has an extra layer as our younger child, 11 months old, is starting the settling in period as I'm back to work in a fortnight. The first full day yesterday and came home with coat and hair smelling stale. So I've done the deed and mentioned it again this morning and again she's shocked that it's happening, are we sure etc, and it's been v uncomfortable. I just don't know where to go from here. I feel I'm letting our children down by not having them out instantly, yet I know that finding care for two will be that much harder, and my elder loves being there - he adores her.

But it's not acceptable is it, for a child to come home from any childcare setting smelling of stale smoke so that the first thing the parent notices is the smell? I'm crap with confrontation and situations where the balance of power is unbalanced - I know that she needs us as we're 80% of her place income, but I feel v deferential to her and find it incredibly difficult to deal with the complex nature of the cm-parent relationship. It's a personal one by definition, they're a replacement mum for all intents and purposes 8 hours a day, yet there is an aspect of employment/workplace professionalism, or at least there should be, and then there's money on top.

So, are there any official lines that I need to be aware of, and please help me with any and all suggestions about how to tackle her personally, and the potential for resloving the contamination/smell issue in situ.

V grateful to all

Yes, it's pretty horrible.

When I'm lying in my bed I sometimes smell smoke if the teenage boy downstairs is smoking in his bedroom. It's coming through gaps somewhere. I don't think there's anything we can do. Most of the time I don't smell it, only notice as I said when I open a bag of supposedly clean clothes somewhere smoke-free.

We live in the city so there's traffic pollution as well. I do worry about long term health implications. We are hoping to move.

Bumping for the evening Childminder crowd

My DH smokes. Not in the house or car but he doesn't change his clothes, coat or anything and its hung up near the kids and I never smell smoke on them but I do on him. Earlier posts are right if your kids hair smell of smoke then he's smoking near them or in the house. Not nice. I would express your concerns to your CM, say that you really really don't want to move them but if this happens once more you will have no alternative but to look for other childcare.

No-one in my home smokes (I've always been 1000% anti-tobacco!) but occasionally my sister, who is a smoker visits while I have mindees. She isn't allowed to smoke anywhere on my premises while she is here but I often find that even then, I can smell cigarette smoke even after she's been gone a few hours, and i am conscious of it.

I sometimes visit my parents with mindees - they love having 'surrogate grandchildren' - and my mum smokes occasionally in the back garden (though NEVER when I'm there with mindees and never on the days she knows I'm visiting with them!!), but the smell does linger for hours (days??), so i always tell parents when I'm visiting them so that they know that should they smell it then that is why. But, tbh, you could be in the local park and have someone smoking like a chimney next to you and, though you can challenge them, you can't make them stop! The same if you take them to any other open space......

CMs have to have a no smoking policy within their 'setting' within their contracted hours of employment in the areas they use for childminding but anyone who uses a cm has to remember that it is primarily their home and home to their husbands, partners, children etc outside those hours!

BTW - my dp is an ex-smoker (long before I met him), but he has just read this thread and commented that if anyone suggested he had a shower when he got in, or kept his coat separate from the rest of the family he would be livid!

My DH used to smoke - although never in the house. You definitely get used to the smell when you live with a smoker and it was only when I stayed away from home I realised that the 'clean' clothes I'd taken away with me stank of stale smoke - but the closest he'd smoked to them was outside on the balcony - with the door shut while the clothes were on airers drying inside. So perhaps your babysitter's DH is smoking outside when your LOs are there and the smell is 'seeping' into the house - especially if window/door is open??

There are rules. No he should not smoke in the house or garden while the children are there.

If your child's clothes smell of stale smoke, most likely he is smoking in the house but when all the children are gone.

Smoke sticks to fabric and can be more dangerous to children than smoking itself as the nicotine gets into the skin and is breathed in by the child.

I would ask ofsted for the report on your CM. Can be viewed on website if you have her ref. no.

Give ofsted a call and ask them on thier new legislation.

underpaidandoverworked 'BTW - my dp is an ex-smoker (long before I met him), but he has just read this thread and commented that if anyone suggested he had a shower when he got in, or kept his coat separate from the rest of the family he would be livid!'

Even if it affected your business, and your business being children - who's health and wellbeing is paramount? A small sacrifice to make I'd think.

It is my business but my dp's home! As I said anyway, he is an EX-smoker but is still entitled to his opinion, as are all posters on here.

Yes and lets face it, it is primarily peoples homes!! Lets not get caught up with all the "mad rules" ourselves here ( I am not supporting smoking - can't stand it!), but all these children live in "normal" homes where there pets/dads/brothers grandmas uncles etc etc all eat/sleep/live/breathe normally without "hiding" everything away, only blinking when told and knowing full well that there are medicines alcohol knives etc in the house etc etc etc.....you get my drift! Phew!

I would never send my kid to a childminder who had smoke around. It is a bad influence. End of. "Do you or anyone in your house smoke?" would be a bog standard interview question for me. If she said "yes", that would be the end of the interview.

However, if I didn't ask and always knew there was smoke, I don't think I'd have grounds to complain later.

Im a cm and neither me or my husband smoke neither do any of our friends who visit our house. I have a parent who does smoke and although I always smell it on her at drop offs and collection times I have never once smelt it on the mindee.She doesnt smoke around mindee but she does in her house when he is asleep, I have never smelt it on him or his clothes / belongings so I think there is a little more to this than meets the eye.

Thanks all.

I don't want to have to move them if we can resolve this together. But I will, if it comes to it.

UPAOW - exactly, I feel awful suggesting that to her but my children coming home and smelling is equally as unpleasant for me. Her partner has a choice to smoke, my children don't have a choice not to be in her house as long as they are in her care. Smokers genuinely don't realise how long and how badly they smell for. It's not just their clothes, it's in their hair and skin as well, and sometimes a even a shower doesn't cut it.

Mumnnanny - I've seen her ofsted report before we signed with her - it's a good overall with good's in most individual categories too. I don't think smoking was mentioned on it. I don't have a problem with her day-to-day care and standards. It's just this smell issue.

Dh and I talked it over last night, and we've decided to give her over the weekend to think about it - we mentioned that she might like to think about alternative storage for the boys' things - and we'll see what she has to say on Tuedsay.

I have had this problem exactly with my CM.
She doesn't smoke but her DH does. I asked at the interview if she smoked but never thought to mention anyone else (1st childcare experience)- tbh it would have made me think twice if I'd known but it is a different decision to withdraw her from a place I'm otherwise very satisfied with.

DD has twice come home smelling of smoke. 2nd time I mentioned it, she was v apologetic and it hasn't happened since. I didn't ask what she did about it or make any threats to withdraw her just said I wasn't happy.

The other side of it is that DD actually really likes CM's DH. He has a building job which starts and finishes early so he's often home at pick up time and I've noticed she's often reading or drawing with him. I think its really nice that he likes the kids and is willing to do stuff with them when its not his job and I wouldn't want this to stop. I would absolutely find it unacceptable if he ever smoked in front of DD but I think what probably happened was transfer from clothes.

I don't think you need to get into discussion of how it happens or what to suggest to tackle it just say that you don't find it acceptable and it needs to change and if she values your relationship and custom its up to her to sort it out.

TBH I think the smoking must be quite significant for it to trfr from clothes to clothes. My nanny smokes on way to our house and sometimes her clothes smell strongly of smoke, but the children never smell of smoke (and I am the kind of ex-smoker who can spot it a mile off). Completely different to when the kids visit their cousins - my brother smokes in the kitchen with the windows open and his house never smells, but the kids clothes do afterwards, every time (and they don't spend time in the kitchen themselves)

I guess what I am trying to say is that I think direct contact with airborne smoke - even from someone smoking in the garden - will leave a much stronger aroma than smells transferred from clothing. For that reason alone I would be concerned about how 'smoke-free' the smoke-free environment is.

underpaidandoverworked 'It is my business but my dp's home! As I said anyway, he is an EX-smoker but is still entitled to his opinion, as are all posters on here.'

Just to clarify... of course he is entitled to his opinion, we all are (who said we all had to think the same in this post?).... including me.

This board is a sounding board of everyone's views and will always have differing opinions