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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

CM CLUB - Feeling demoralised with people's disregard for our profession

47 replies

TheOtherMaryPoppinsDiets · 27/02/2009 22:58

Just been reading a very long post on AIBU and it's just topped my week off tbh.

Why do people find it so awful for someone to slag off nurseries, but then feel it's fair game to bitch about Childminding?? All those "Oh I'd NEVER use a CM!" posts that make you feel like you are regarded as some kind of pervert/criminal/abuser

I never fully realised before Registering how low the public's opinion of Childminders is

I don't feel it will ever change and face another 30+ years of defending myself and my chosen profession - yes I CHOSE it - I didn't do it as a stop gap, to stay home with my own children - they are teenagers and I CHOOSE to care for other people's youngsters because I enjoy it, and yes I am a businessperson of course I want paying for it, why should I feel ashamed about that?

Who else feels totally demoralised to the point of rethinking their career?

OP posts:
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nomoreamover · 28/02/2009 18:29

I have found that the attitude to my profession is far worse on MN than anywhere else actually - more so even than RL. It does make me wonder the sort of people who can get all high and mighty about leaving their child with a qualified professional childcare provider like a CM but yet would have no qualms about employing an au pair or nanny who may not have anything like the qualifications and certainly not the regulation from Ofsted etc that CMs have.

Please don't think I am slating nannies etc I am not - just making the point that some MNers seem to have an odd way of differentiating between what is and isn't acceptable childcare choices.

I work extremely hard and will even spend some time this evening looking at my mindee's learnign journies - if I was only in it for the money or because of something more sinister I wouldn't care about my mindees progress...

OP I do empathise but urge you to hang in there - all this extra work Ofsted are making us do can only give us more qudos as a profession......

ScummyMummy · 28/02/2009 18:30

At least you're not social workers.

nomoreamover · 28/02/2009 18:38

scrummy - thats a good point! Poor SWs must be feeling it in the neck too these days!

dietstartstomorrow · 28/02/2009 18:45

Im a CM, and I feel really proud when people ask what I do. I love my job and IMO I do it really well.

OP - Just do the best job you can and ignore the negative.

BTW - I have strong opinions about under 2.5's being in a nursery environment, and that was before I had kids or became a CM. Thats just my opinion, and would never make anyone feel bad if that choose that for their child. Different strokes and all that...

charitygirl · 28/02/2009 18:57

Hello ladies! I respect childminders and desperately want to find one I like to leave my son (7 months) with when I return to work. I want a home environment, cuddles, no other babies etc, and I think that is what a CM will provide. The 'baby rooms' in nurseries are horrible IMHO (not so for older children).

BUT the thought of leaving my darling baby with a stranger is obviously scary - what should I be asking the CMs I visit to suss out the good from the bad (who I'm sure are the minority). Obviously I will go with gut feeling too, but I would so welcome your imput - I'm visiting two potentials next week!

So far, my questions are

  1. Do you have any references (and should I be alarmed if they say they don't have any?)
  2. Can I see your last letter of inspection from OFSTED (is this right?)
  3. Have you done any training (what should I be looking for here?)

Thanks so much - sorry for barging in, and I will be v grateful for advice. Of course if you're in SW9/SE11, let me know!

nomoreamover · 28/02/2009 19:12

charity girl - ofsted reports are quite long - especially the ones pre Sep 08. You might want to ask what she got (eg satisfactory/good etc) and any highlights she thinks you would want to see (like the inspector thought her safety was excellent or her house was hygeinic etc)
Don't be alarmed if she hasn't got references - not all parents can be bothered to write letters of recommendation when they have moved on - or else they'll say "write something and I'll just sign it" - hardly a good point of reference! Plus it could just be a friend of theirs saying what they think you want to hear!

Training is an excellenmt one - the more they have done the more seriously they take their job....go with your gut instinct - it counts for alot

Shoshe · 28/02/2009 19:28

Mary, I think the majority of the bad things that are said about CM's are because the media only reports the bad things.

When was the last time you saw a article about a GOOD CM, about the relationships that children have with them, and the families that go on for years.

i have ben in Childcare for 30 years mainly as a CM, although some nursery work, and in fact am about to go back to Nursery work all be it (If I get the job) as a Manager.

IMO ALL childcare gets negative press, because the general public is not interested in hearing the good, just the bad.

charitygirl · 28/02/2009 19:35

Thank you nomoreamover!

wobbegong · 28/02/2009 19:39

charitygirl, use alibubble's list

alibbubble's questions

I love my childminder and agree with Shoshe that press only want negative stories about any childcare, cos we're all meant to feel guilty about using it. Sigh.

Tanith · 01/03/2009 09:10

Twinklemegan, your posts say it all about the uninformed attitude some people have about childminders.

I appreciate you were being overly vehement in context but, so far as I can see, you've never used a childminder and you don't know much about them. Yet there you are, announcing to everyone that you'd never, ever use one and, at first, you didn't even give your reasons.

You're entitled to your opinion. I fully understand and acccept that parents have to be comfortable about their childcare choices which are personal to them. Those choices are often influenced by other people's anecdotal evidence, though, and I think you've been unfair.

SOME childminders work alone: others work as part of a couple or team, most meet up with other childminders. SOME childminders are unsupervised, some have a co-ordinator that drops in, sometimes unannounced, throughout the year. SOME childminders allow the kids to watch lots of TV, some won't even allow it on during the day. SOME childminders give poor quality food, some insist on food provided from home, some cook organic meals from source ingredients.

Childminders are all so different and varied that you can't make those kind of sweeping generalisations.

There are good and bad childminders, same as there are good and bad nurseries. You expect poor practice to be picked up and acted on. I know it's not that straightforward and, in a bad nursery, that doesn't happen. Staff might moan, but they don't do anything about it. Just look at the comments from some nursery workers on the discussion. I could give you some of my own anecdotal horror stories, but what's the point? Not all nurseries are like that.

Don't feel you've got to justify your own nursery or your decision to use it. I know the arguments for and against already. I'm not trying to sweeping generalisations about nurseries, nor am I suggesting you made a bad decision in using a nursery. All I'm doing is pointing out that good and bad practice occurs in all types of childcare and no-one has any justification in writing off any particular type of care with stereotypes.

charitygirl · 01/03/2009 16:38

So helpful wobbegong thank you. I feel much less nervous now.

Twinklemegan · 01/03/2009 16:39

Well I admit that my information about childminders comes from the couple I've observed at toddler group and the childminder I visited before deciding to put DS in a small nursery. My reasons for not placing DS with the childminder were as follows:

a remote location requiring the use of the car to go anywhere - I was not comfortable with him travelling in a stranger's car

obvious and admitted use of the TV

a proud boast that she wished the regulations allowed her to look after more children than she could

an absolute obsession with telling me about all her regulations and procedures, rather than me just seeing her for herself interacting with the children

a general attitude that the parenting skills of my and my DH were to be judged in the name of "child protection"

All these things combined made me uncomfortable with the whole idea, even though on paper the setup seemed ideal and I had favoured a childminder over a nursery. Plus she was more expensive than the local nurseries and less convenient in terms of location.

And I've never regretted our choice of the nursery. It takes only 16 children of mixed ages, with a very high staff to child ratio. And I personally find it much more healthy for DS to develop a relationship with more than one adult. He is thriving there (2 days a week) and I haven't regretted my choice once.

I don't generally come on here and slag off childminders you know. As I think has been recognised, my comment on the other thread was made out of irritation with the OP's sweeping condemnation of all nursery settings. But from what I've seen, a lone childminder isn't for me.

Interestingly, the only nursery/childminders that I've been unhappy with have been ones with excellent Care Commission reports. Both nurseries which have been excellent we have selected on the basis of our gut feelings before either had received their first inspection. The inspections were subsequently excellent, but they are certainly not the be all and end all. It is the individuals that are the key - if you and your DC don't gel with them, then it's never going to work.

nomoreamover · 01/03/2009 17:53

Apart from the tv twinklemegan - i don't see the big deal with what you are moaning about there -

She HAS to tell you about her regulations and paperwork etc - you have no idea how much paperwork we have to do and how many things you are expected to sign for and read and understand. She was simply telling you what Ofsted says she has to tell you....

Twinklemegan · 01/03/2009 20:54

Why the use word "moaning" in that post please? Where I choose to place my DS is my business, and my business alone. I go on gut feeling, and I'm afraid my gut feeling wasn't great in this case - that's the crux of it. No need to take offence.

Twinklemegan · 01/03/2009 21:03

Furthermore, anyone can spout regulations - so that's beside the point really. If she's registered by the Care Commission then I would assume they were in place and I'm perfectly capable of reading the literature for myself, as I did with the nursery.

That's not what I'm after when I visit a care provider - I'm looking to get a feel for the place and see how the other children are behaving and interacting with the carer(s). All the bits that a Care Commission report can't tell you basically.

If childminders are looking for useful feedback here, then there's something to bear in mind when meeting with prospective parents.

cory · 01/03/2009 23:59

If you live in a closely knit community where people talk to each other (as I do) then there will be no person more vouched for or easier to find out about than a good childminder. True pillars of our community. I had heard of our present childminder at least 8 years before I started using her.

(and I only changed childminders for practical reasons to do with dd's disability, not because I had reason to be dissatisfied)

Nursery workers will come and go, but childminders tend to be people who have lived here a long time and are known by everybody. People know who they are and what their reputation is like even if they don't themselves use a childminder.

Dysgu · 02/03/2009 01:11

I never realised that childminders had such a bad press - mine is such an important part of my and my DD's life! My baby girl started going for 4 long days a week (7.30am - 5pm) from the age of 7 months, which was quite something when she was born 2 months early. She absolutely loves going and continues to go for two (much shorter) days even now that I am on maternity leave having had another DD. In fact, when my waters went (early again) on Xmas eve, it was my CM who took in my DD1 whilst I was dashed to the hospital. Right now I am just keeping my fingers crossed that my CM will have space to take DD2 when I return to work in September - and plan to organise DD1's sessions at preschool accordingly so that my CM can take both of them. I can't even imagine what I will do if she can't take both of them - I wouldn't want them to go anywhere else as I know she is fabulous and DD1 loves going and has so much fun - no matter what the plan for the day! Thank god for Childminders!

nomoreamover · 02/03/2009 11:39

thanks dysgu - thats made my day!

Twinkle - just getting frustrated tbh - we are well aware that parents generally don't give a monkeys about the paperwork - but OFSTED insists we conduct our business in a certain way and sadly that includes boring the pants off prospective parents...it also means that alot of parents worry that we are spending too much time on paperwork and not enough on playtime with the little ones - but Ofsted make the rules and we have to follow them. Don't critisise us for it.

And if you didn't want backlash for your comments - you shouldn't have posted them! You imply that anyone who is too up on their paperwork won't be a good childminder....thats not fair - we have to be both or else we can't be registered.

thinkingabout3 · 02/03/2009 20:31

I have the most wonderful childminder and can honestly say that I trust her 100% and she's the only person I can leave my children with and not give them a moments thought simply because I know that they are well looked after. I went to pick up my DC's this afternoon and CM's DS was giving her a hug must to the frustration of my 2 year old who wanted to be the one doing the hugging and gave her the biggest hug ever.

My DD has been there since she was 9 months old and it has been the most positive wonderful experience for her. They do loads of lovely crafty things, bake, play with lovely toys and yes, they watch a bit of TV too but so what?

My DS went to nursery from 1 year old. I never put him in the baby room as I personally don't like baby rooms, there always seems to be one or two babies left crying and not enough hands to give them the attention they needed. He did like nursery but I was never 100% on it as I felt that it wasn't individual enough and worried that they wouldn't have the desire to look after him like I did and that he'd be left sad and crying. I don't think that they did and they had a good open door policy but I always had a niggle at the back of my mind.

My CM has given my DD the best start in life, I work without any guilt at all knowing that she's in safe and loving hands and you can't ask for more than that

smellyeli · 02/03/2009 21:03

I am just about to change my DD (who is 10 months old) from nursery to childminder. CM was not on my radar when DS was born, I just thought 'oh, nursery will be best for me'. I really didn't know what CM's actually did, I just thought it was just hanging around with other people's kids in someone's house . But now I've seen the light! I think good CM's are worth their weight in gold. The thought that she will no longer be in a small babyroom where they leave her vest unbuttoned all day so that they can check to see if she's pooed, and tell me she's been 'absolutely fine' even if she's been crying, and give her sandwiches for tea even thought she can't feed herself and comes home starving - it's a great relief to me. She'll be with someone who will talk to her using proper words, and take her on trips to the library, and really be part of the local community with her. I think CM's should see Ofsted as a positive thing - it's a chance to prove expertise and credibility. But I do feel sorry for CM's ever-increasing pile of paperwork - it's like lots of jobs really, the paperwork can get in the way of the real work. I have to say, when I went to meet 'our' CM I didn't really ask her any questions about procedures - I just wanted to see how she interacted with the children and what her general outlook was. I think when it's a sole carer, you do need someone who just seems to click with your own philosophy.

So basically, CM's - you do a great job! Don't lose heart.

Twinklemegan · 02/03/2009 21:11

If I were running a business I would be interested in feedback from potential users of my services. I knew full well that the OP was referring to my off the cuff post on the other thread and I could have just ignored it, but I didn't. Incidentally the childminder in question was only very sketchily known by the other local childminder (who was full) which didn't inspire confidence.

A nursery manages just fine to give a parent a good flavour of the care on offer without blinding them with the rules and regulations. I would have thought a childminder would be quite capable of doing the same. But anyhow, that was only one small point and not worthing dwelling on any further.

Incidentally, the absolute most important thing for me in choosing childcare has been how my DS has reacted to the surroundings, and how the carer(s) have reacted to him. I was sold on the nursery when a little boy came along and ushered DS off to play outside with the rest of the children. He didn't want to come home - that gave me confidence that he would settle and enjoy himself. He has settled and he loves it - we haven't looked back.

Yes it was a mistake to post that I would never, ever use a childminder - as I have repeated ad nauseum it was posted to rebuff an OP calculated to upset every parent who uses a nursery. Actually, if I had picked up on the same vibes from a childminder as I did from the nursery, and if I had sufficient confidence in the individual, then DS may well be going to one. I have no axe to grind despite how it may have appeared.

PAPERFREEK · 03/03/2009 00:39

Twinklemegan, I am a long standing childminder, and I understand where you are coming from. 17 years ago when I had my first son I had no intention of leaving a very well paid Director's Secretary's job. I put my child into a nursery very close to my office. I would never have chosen a childminder at the time. I didn't know any personally and I felt having more than one adult around would mean it would be safer for my child. My sister put her child in the same nursery for the same reason at the same time. Both boys were the same age.

I had a terrible experience at the nursery which ended up in my having to resign from my job and not wanting to trust my child to anyone - even family members. My sister on the other hand was happy with the care her child was receiving and would to this day praise the nursery. I was not as experienced as I am now and didn't take the matter further.

I still didn't think of leaving my child with a childminder at the time and had no choice but to stay at home. That was when I decided to become a childminder myself. I was desparate and couldn't think of any other job where I could make money to live and at the same time stay at home with my child.

I now have a network of childminder friends and am sure if i needed to leave my younger child now I would know enough really caring, professional minders to feel secure in the knowledge that my child would be happy and safe.

It is hard for new minders to gain the trust of parents. For us 'oldies' it is easy. If the children are not happy and well cared for word gets round so fast. We are always under the watchful eye of friends of our parents in the school yard, library, supermarket, butchers etc. Whenever we leave the setting someone somewhere sees us and knows how the children are behaving, whether they look happy, warm and safe. In the setting we have other minders dropping in and out, parents coming at all times to pick up, photographic evidence on the walls, kids pictures and most of all the children themselves who bear witness to our strengths and weaknesses.

Ofsted are just a tiny judge of our competence. They only come once every 3 years. We know when they are coming and are well prepared paperwise, but childwise we cannot possibly get a 2 year old to perform on the day if they don't naturally do things all year round. We can't get parents to say how wonderful we are or be enthusiastic if the inspector happens to be there at pick up if the parents are disatisfied with our service.

I would certainly know what to look for in a childminder's home and I would know instinctively what to look for in a childminder.

I would also find it reassuring that the childminder will not change. Where although I know there are some fantastic nurseries, you cannot guarantee the staff you love will be the same staff who will always be in contact with your child as turnover may dictate someone new is in charge of their babyroom, toddlers etc. This happened to one of my mums, she loved the nursery she was with until the staffing changed and her child became withdrawn and unhappy. I now look after the child and she is now confident and happy again.

I never take it personally when someone says "I would never use a childminder" I felt that way once. I just hope that somewhere down the line that person has some occasion to come into contact with a minder, either in a playgroup situation where the minder is interacting with the children, or in a library when the children are sitting listening to her tell a story, or in a shop when the mindees are picking the fruit for snacks, and thinks wow, she's good with the children and recognises that the children are not hers but mindees, perhaps by their differing looks or ages etc.

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