CM CLUB - Feeling demoralised with people's disregard for our profession

[TheOtherMaryPoppinsDiets]

Just been reading a very long post on AIBU and it's just topped my week off tbh.

Why do people find it so awful for someone to slag off nurseries, but then feel it's fair game to bitch about Childminding?? All those "Oh I'd NEVER use a CM!" posts that make you feel like you are regarded as some kind of pervert/criminal/abuser

I never fully realised before Registering how low the public's opinion of Childminders is

I don't feel it will ever change and face another 30+ years of defending myself and my chosen profession - yes I CHOSE it - I didn't do it as a stop gap, to stay home with my own children - they are teenagers and I CHOOSE to care for other people's youngsters because I enjoy it, and yes I am a businessperson of course I want paying for it, why should I feel ashamed about that?

Who else feels totally demoralised to the point of rethinking their career?

One of those posts was by me, and I worded it strongly for the benefit of the OP because I felt that all the concerns raised about nurseries could equally apply to some childminders, except that childminders have fewer controls and checks on a daily basis.

I'm sorry if it has made you feel bad, but I stand by my position that I wouldn't use a childminder - at least not one who works alone - because I'm not comfortable placing so much trust in a single adult who isn't known to me. However, once DS is old enough to tell me what he has been doing during the day then maybe I'll feel differently.

There is still this opinion of cms that they just do it to stay at home with their own kids, that they are just babysitters, or the cheaper option to a nursery.

I think people are entitled to their opinions, and yes, as a parent I do feel that if I were looking for childcare, it would take a huge amount of trust to place my baby with a stranger.

However, people also need to do their researc. Cms with good and outstanding awards from ofsted do not just get that for performing well on the day, they have to prove, in many different ways, why they are this good, and why the children they care for love coming to their setting. We do an amzing amount of training, we are all now on level 3 courses, we are all trained in EYFS as are nurseries, so are delivering the exact same level of care and education.

A baby in a nursery can no easier tell you they have had a bad time than a baby with a cm can. However, a baby who has been with a cm through their babyhood, into todderhood, onto school and so on can certainly tell you. Parents need to seek out cms with great references and reccommnedations, from the children themselves.

Of course this makes it hard for new cms, but we all have to start somewhere and work hard to build our reputation.

As for having fewer checks than nurseries, we are checked by ofsted every three years, which is the same as nuseries. If you are on a quality assured network as I am, you will have gone through a further stringent checking procedure, filled out even more paperwork and proved what you do before becoming accepted. You will then be checked and monitored every three months by the network coordinator, some of these will not be announced.

I agree there are bad cms just as their are bad nurseries. But I don'tlike the 'I will never place my child with a cm in a million years' attitude either. I suspect people who feel this way have done very little researc on cms, or have had very bad experiences with cms, which is unfair on all cms in general.

I am 28 years old, and have very fond memories of my wonderful childminder, despite the fact that I haven't seen her since I was 4!!!
As unbelievable as it sounds, sometimes I will do or say things and when questioned I say "Auntie XX taught me that" without really realising. She looked after me full time while my parents worked long hours, and had quite an impact.
I met with several lovely child minders when choosing care for my own children, and finally settled on one that they are very happy with after 2 years. I hope they will be with her for the forseeable future!
I don't know anyone in RL who has ever been happy with a nursery.
I respect your profession, and I'm extremely grateful that people like you exist.

I would like to put my two penny's worth in about childminders. Me and my ds were actually expelled by our first childminder when he was 9 months. She asked us to leave! She already looked after my best friend's daughter, and I thought I could not have a better recommendation. How wrong I was.

She refused to put him to sleep anywhere other than a pushchair, and then when he didn't sleep said she refused to rock him to sleep in it because she it wasn't fair on my friend's daughter. He would then,(unsurprisingly) at 5 months, get overtired, scream all day, and she would end up bringing him to me and the school where I taught, claiming she had a headache and couldn't cope. She asked me to stop breastfeeding, as she felt that was part of 'the problem'. (I refused). After she asked us to leave, citing part of the reason as 'he cries at the library, and it's not fair on other people' (don't take a 9 month old to the library then- du uh), she worked 2 weeks notice. During that time, I arrived to find her screaming at my ds for crying when she had left the room to answer the phone. Needless to say, I removed him immediately, and she didn't work the rest of her notice. This woman had been a childminder for 15 years and had received an outstanding Ofsted.

Our second childminder had also worked for 15 years, also received 'outstanding', and is truly an angel. She won my heart when she said 'I will do most things you ask, but just don't ask me to leave him to cry, because I never could'. She solved the sleeping problem by trying various places, finally finding a solution in a a car seat, which ahe rocked for 10 minutes (hardly 'unfair' to her other 2 charges) and after 2 weeks she just needed to put him in it and he would sleep. Obviously he was much more settled he slept. 2 months later and she could put him in a travel cot. Their relationship went from strength to strength, and now he is 3 and they both adore each other.

I can't ask for anything more than the mothering she gives him when I am not there. She is worth her weight in gold, and I am so grateful. There's no way I could expect that kind of relationship from a nursery.

o that is lovely abbierhodes ! I hope that has cheered OP up ! It certainly has me.

It is lovely to think your job could have such a positive impact. I am in contact with all of the parents I have minded for in the past. They send letters and photos if they moved away, and visit when they can. I keep all these in my portfolio to show new parents. I think if more people actually visited cms with this aspect in mind, they might be pleasantly surprised.

I have one mindee who would be funded at nursery if she went, but her parents keep her with me while I am working towards my accreditation - this to me is a huge privilege. It shows how happy she is and they are. I have said before on mn, cm'ing is a huge privilege - you are being trusted with the most precious thing in peoples lives.

Unfortunately the odd bad story, or bad experience can really effect public opinion, though this never seems to happen with nurseries. I sent both my dds to nurseries when they were funded, one loved it and one hated it, and I will think twice about sending my ds. I may just send him to another cm I know so he gets used to time away from me ! Anyway I digress. I love this job, despite how exhausting it can be, and the mountains of endless paperwork that goes with it.

Feenie - I am shocked and saddened by your experience with the first cm. That is appalling, and I have no idea why the hell she is working with children, or how the hell she got outstanding !! Reports like that obviously worry parents, I would feel the same.
I think its amazing you were able to trust another cm with your ds. I am really glad you did, as you have obviously found the right one!

Thanks! Have just finished praising her to the heavens to a prospective parent. I don't know, on reflection. how I didn't lamp the first one. If she hadn't been my best friend's mate I would have reported her. i think the problem was she adored her daughter so much that it was to the total exclusion of any other child, including her own twin daughters.
She was so upset when she left and started school that she gave up childminding. She uses the internet a lot - don't know if she MNs - but I hope she reads this, because I will never forgive her.

With my point about childminders having fewer checks in place I meant that they are working alone and unsupervised, whereas there are a number of staff working at a nursery so poor practice by the odd member of staff is more likely to be spotted and acted on. That's also what I was getting at when I said I wanted DS to be able to tell me.

Two or three of the staff at DS's nursery are really excellent (all are very good) and he has a terrific relationship with them. If any of them was to go off and be a childminder I would have no qualms whatsover in sending him there. But that's because I know and trust them, and DS knows and trusts them. The problem for me with using a childminder is that I would have to leave DS with them, and them alone, before that trust had been properly established.

My CM is wonderful and my two DCs adore her. So not about to slag off CMs here...

Can I also say, in response to Feenie's post, that you can and do get that kind of relationship at a nursery. DS thinks the world of his key worker, and another one of the staff who unfortunately had to leave recently was welling up when she gave DS his goodbye cuddles. And I was welling up too because she was fantastic with him. The thing is that large chain nurseries and small private nurseries can be polls apart. In fact I would say that DS's nursery is much more similar to a joint childminding setup than a large nursery.

I get what you're saying too, Twinkle, but the very fact that you say his key worker and another one too dilutes the kind of care that I expect, and now get. I get that kind of care from just one mother figure, and I am 100% grateful for that sort of mothering!

I feel wary towards childminders due to the fact that (IN MY EXPERIENCE) there is a tendancy to treat your customers (parents) as a commodity.
I was let down badly by a childminder who failed to inform me when I signed up with her that she was pregnant causing all kinds of reliability issues - I made it clear when I approached her that I travelled the length of the country for work, was a single mother with no family or backup in the area and assumed when she put 0 day notice to cancel on her side that it would be for illness and emergencies, not predictable maternity requirements.
In the event, she refused to give me a cut off date, insisted on 4 weeks notice on my part and refused to accept 14 days notice (as contracted)for a cut in hours to mornings only when I made arrangements with the out of school club for after school collection.

Yes, I should have been on the ball with the contract but I was moving house, school, childcare etc on my own while working full time. She saw me coming and took full advantage.

I have no doubt that there are some exceptional childminders out there but might there be a tendancy to assume that because you are self employed you can behave as you please, regardless?

My childminder's cavalier attitude to there being no-one to collect my son from school was a real shocker and left me with no choice but to reduce my sons hours with her. On hearing that she refused to accept the reduced hours, I was stunned by her arrogance and when my son informed me she had called me a 'fucking bitch' infront of ds and her other mindees, that was grounds to remove without notice.
I would not go with a childminder again without being desperate.

I now leave my son with the out of school club and although the hours are completely inflexible, it is very reliable and half the price. My son is happier and as a result, so am I.

I'm sorry you are feeling got at but I also feel that is down to individual treatment such as mine. You should not take it to heart if the circumstances do not apply to you.

Perhaps the answer is better regulation, when I was dealing with my nightmare childminder, ofsted investigated but took no further action as most of the complaints were contractual. After Ofsted, I had no avenue for complaint and that means that she has tainted all childminders for me.

I'm sorry, as I'm sure that you did not want to hear that some are damaging your overall reputation.

There's nothing you can do about what other people think of your profession... how do we all feel about bankers right now?? Have we loved estate agents this past decade??? ;)

All I know is I give my best as a childminder and I go beyond the call of duty with my mindees and parents. We work in partnership as the little ones develop, and I love it. It is much more than a job to me. I have worked at a nursery before too (when I was studying for my design degree), and it was a stunning school. OK it was my mum's so I am biased... haha but it was brilliant. She had it for over 20 years and people flocked to her school.

There are good and bad nurseries, as there are good and bad childminders. That's why people need to do their homework and go with their gut feel. People are people, no matter what regulations they are supposed to uphold.

One thing that did surprise me was when I gave up a very good career in publishing (am a graphic designer by trade), to childmind - a couple of my friends looked at me like I was going mad... thinking I had taken a huge step backward to leave a prestigious industry... to childmind?

BUT I took a huuuuge leap forward!!! I have never been happier. I still freelance sometimes too. Feel so blessed. I love it when I open the front door and the kids run into my arms. I cater for commuting parents so work long, flexible hours.

I had great relationships with the kids at the nursery as well as a childminder currently, but have understandably gotten closer to the kids I mind.

I agree completely MaryPoppins - it's so demoralising and I have stopped posting on those sorts of threads as it makes me very defensive. All you can do is know that you do your best, you aren't like this. Just as in every other profession there are good and bad people doing the job, and just have to ignore these types of threads.

I am actually having to find a weekend job as I can't fill my full time weekly spot to maintain my future as a childminder. I am hoping that once I can get work as a childminder I can give up, but I am working as a weekend carer for the elderly. I like to think my work with children has given me the inspiration to work with those who need help and compassion.

Anyway, try to ignore it all... You do your very best.

Childcare has always been undervalued, under appreciated. Some parents like the idea of a Home-Environment, where as others want their child in an institution. They may feel that there is safety in numbers - though past events has shown that children can be abused whilst in group care... nursery, children's homes and the such, just as they are at risk of abuse within a smaller childcare setting. Statistics I believe still say that children are at most risk from their own family, yet parents still seem to let their children be alone with relatives. There is always a risk whenever a child is being cared for - even by their own parents - but the problem I see with in institutions (group care) is that the staff can collectively cover-up what goes on, pulling the wool over the eyes of parents and childcare inspectors.
In April 1993, a student nursery nurse pleaded guilty at Newcastle Crown Court to 9 counts of indecent assault, plus asked for 3 more to be taken into account. The offences related to children at a local nursery. Source: The Factual Background
Abuse can happen in nurseries... even while other staff are watching. Other staff may well have known what was happening but didn't say anything... I haven't read the full case, so I don't know for sure, but the nursery nurse admitted to 12 counts of indecent assault... so it isn't as though it only happened once.

Parents I feel want reassurance that whenever their child is cared for - be it at a nursery, childminder, school, holiday club, with a nanny - that their child is safe. Over the past 20 years we have seen a big change in the way childcare is regulated and we have another change coming up later this year with the introduction of the ISA.

Bad childminders, Bad nurseries, Bad nannies all exist. Bad Schools also exist, thus why parents choose carefully which school their child goes to, and get local opinion on which schools to avoid.

There is no news like bad news - the media publishes the bad news... not often you hear the good. So if parents read newspapers, listen to the radio, watch TV, then they will hear the bad news... not always the good.

I have pretty much stopped giving a shit what anyone on MN or in RL thinks of CM's tbh.

My parents think i do a great job and my mindees love to come and play and often don't want to go home so that's all that matters imo.

I won't bore anyone with the horror stories about the nurseries i worked in. You will have heard them all before i daresay. They were awful, awful places but the parents loved the nursery and staff. Just because there are more than one person caring for your child doesn't make it a safer place sadly.

Don't judge the majority of CM's who do a good job just because the vast minority are crap.

I agree will NannyNick's statement

"There is no news like bad news - the media publishes the bad news... not often you hear the good. So if parents read newspapers, listen to the radio, watch TV, then they will hear the bad news... not always the good."

I am an absolute advocate of high quality childminders. I believe that young children should be in a home envionment where they can form sustantial and real bonds with one significant person. No nursery I've ever visited or worked in, no matter how good the key-worker system, will ever convince me that this is entirely possible in a nursery situation.

Of course, as a parent, it's important to carry out all the necessary checks including following up references from other parents.

My dd has been with a childminder since she was 10 months old (part time). Unfortunately, the relationship with our first childminder didn't work out and we agreed to go our separate ways after 3 months. However, it didn't alter my opinion of childminders in general. I just accepted that some childminders and children don't "click"!

We explored our options and visited other childminders and nurseries, but to be honest, it just further entrenched my views that young children should be cared for in a family environement.

We found our second childminder shortly afterwards and dd has now been with her for 3 and a half years.

She provides the highest quality of care, support and love (yes really!) for my dd. Dd is treated as one of the family, which is just the way I wanted it.

Did I have concerns about trusting the childminder? To be honest, no, the thought never crossed my mind. I had checked up all her references, checked the ofsted report and very importantly, spent 3 settling in sessions with dd and the childminder and then dd had 3 or 4 more on her own before starting there properly.

Dd will finish at the childminders in July, and I'm already worrying about how to support dd with the transition away from spending time with someone who is so important to her.

Sorry - that was a bit of an essay!

aGalChangedHerName wrote: "My parents think i do a great job and my mindees love to come and play and often don't want to go home so that's all that matters imo."

Quite agree... it is the views of a services users that are important, not the views of random people posting on a message board, or people in RL who don't use the service.

As a male nanny, I'm a bit of novelty - still not many male nannies around. Having worked with children for 20 years one way or another, I'm quite used to some people not liking what I do. But those people aren't the people who count... it is the parents who trust me to care for their children who count... it is the children themselves who count.

Take comfort from the fact that the users of your service appreciate what you do.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is RL?

One of my parents told me the other day that after her and her hubby, I am the closest to, and know their children the best... even before their nana and grandad! This surprised me, as they are close to nana and grandad. But the thing is, they spend so much time with me in my home, it's a naturally close relationship... and I think it's wonderful. When we are out I am often assumed to be mum, and people are surprised when I say I am their CM. The CM and child relationship is SUCH a special one. Nanny and child too.. and even teachers of course. They all have their place

I take much comfort in the knowledge that my mindees and parents feel like my home is their second home... that's all the appreciation I need.

It can be a very daunting thing leaving a child with a stranger, my daughter was left with a childminder when I was a single mum 10 years ago. She was brilliant not just giving me flexible childcare, but was very caring and supported me going through a bad time. My daughter still has very fond memories of being there as part of their family, she never remembers it as "childcare", we kept in contact for many years, untill they moved to Australia. This is why I decided to become a childminder. I got an outstanding and although very proud, instead of resting on my laurels I am now working even harder to try and maintain that standard. A relative of mine decided they would use a nursery because they couldn't find an outstanding childminder in their area, I told them not to do this. Brilliant loving and caring childminders can be classed as good just because they missed some bits of paperwork - or didn't concentrate on handwashing enough. As I would suggest to anyone, visit lots of different options, go with your feelings, get references from parents who have used and are currently using the childcare. I always tell prospective parents to come as often as they want to get a good feel, just because I am good at my job, doesn't mean they have to like me (or their children might not like me ) Remember an outstanding nursery could have a total turnover of staff before another inspection, whereas the childminder is always the same consistant person.

RL = Real Life

Well OP if it makes you feel any better, my CM simply made my life feasible. She was a truly wonderful wonderful person and without her I don't think I'd have been able to go back to work, I wouldn't have done as well as I have done career-wise and my children wouldn't be the self-confident affectionate people they are. She was an extra granny. Better than me in so many ways at a lot of things. My children and I all benefitted from her input into her lives. She is a good friend (not that i see her so often now ). She 'minded' 3 of my DCs from a few months old to school age (bit younger than that for DS#2.

Those who say they would never try a CM are cutting their nose off to spite their faces. It can be a fantastic relationship and contributes loads to a child and a family.

Please don't rethink. Good CM are worth their weight in diamonds.

In my opinion, there are good and bad nurseries and CMs. I am a CM and have had 4 children/babies moved to me from our local Nursery. The last baby got sent to me as the nursery DIDNT have time to change her nappy and left her in the middle of the floor crying until her mum picked her up. There were plenty of staff there to do it. (I visit the nursery every day to do a pickup so I know the routine).

I have now earned myself a very good reputation locally and have been called Mrs Doubtfire on more that one occasion.

So it just goes to show that not all people think we are incapable of showing love and attention to other peoples children and looking after them properly.

Rant over (phew)

In my opinion, there are good and bad nurseries and CMs. I am a CM and have had 4 children/babies moved to me from our local Nursery. The last baby got sent to me as the nursery DIDNT have time to change her nappy and left her in the middle of the floor crying until her mum picked her up. There were plenty of staff there to do it. (I visit the nursery every day to do a pickup so I know the routine).

I have now earned myself a very good reputation locally and have been called Mrs Doubtfire on more that one occasion.

So it just goes to show that not all people think we are incapable of showing love and attention to other peoples children and looking after them properly. And I do look after an 8 and 11yo too, so im sure they are more than capable of telling their mum if I was not doing my job properly.

Rant over (phew)