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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Is it acceptable for AP to smack a childs hand?

53 replies

NewTeacher · 23/02/2009 10:48

Hi there

My DD can be trying when she wants nothing extraordinarily so, just the usual tantrumy 3 year old.

This morning I heard my DD crying (I was upstairs getting changed and she was downstairs with her brother and AP). Didnt think much of it as I thought she had been told off for not eating brekkie.

When I went downstairs I asked her what was wrong and she wouldnt answer she had a big blob of snot and tears streaming down her face. AP was supposed to have done her hair but has stomped off to kitchen. My DS who is 5 pipes up "Mummy DD wasn't eating her breakfast so AP smacked her".

TBH I was gob smacked and just said "No one is allowed to smack anyone" when AP was in the room. I took DS to one side and asked him if AP had really smacked DD and he said Yes on her hand. I asked DD when we were alone and in the car and she didnt give me an answer.

I'm appalled and dont know what to do. How do I approach with AP? I know my DS and he wouldnt make it up.

OP posts:

IwishIwasmoreorganised · 23/02/2009 10:50

You have to tell her straight away that it is not acceptable.

Perhaps tell her your way of dealing with such a situation.

scrooged · 23/02/2009 10:50

Get rid of the AP! Your child will now be afraid of her and there's no way to repair the damage she's done to his tryst in her.

Supernanny19 · 23/02/2009 10:52

wannaBe · 23/02/2009 10:53

Firstly you need to talk to the AP to establish exactly what happened - while she may be in the wrong she does have a right to state her case - ie whether she actually did smack your dd. But if she did, then I would get rid.

If smacking is not a form of discipline you personally use then that is not acceptable and I would get rid of the AP. The only exception for me would be if say the child was putting herself in danger and hand was smacked away from say, a hot pan for instance. But smacking because she wouldn't eat her breakfast is not on.

kidcreoleandthecoconuts · 23/02/2009 10:56

That's unacceptable behaviour for the AP. I wouldnt trust her not to do it again. If she slapped your DD's hand with you in the house what could she do when you're not there. I'd just tell her that you want her to leave.

theyoungvisiter · 23/02/2009 10:56

Did you make your views on this clear when you hired your AP? Different cultures have very different views on discipline and I think it may be a bit unfair to assume she would get your approach without spelling it out.

If you DID spell it out then go in all guns blazing and tick her off / fire her.

If not then simply say "I realised I never talked to you about acceptable ways of disciplining the kids - I just wanted to make it clear that physical punishments are not acceptable."

squeaver · 23/02/2009 10:57

No Never acceptable.

And what wannabe said.

Original poster

NewTeacher · 23/02/2009 10:59

Yes I agree with all of you and yes I was really taken back with it.

DD seems fine with it and wasnt scared of AP. I was more angry at AP and her attitude to it all because she stomped off and didnt bother to do DD's hair because she was annoyed at her for crying!!!

You know the..walk off in a huff OMG I mean she's only 3 FGS!

I will sit down with her when I get home and ask her what happened and see what she says. Like you say she has the right to state her case BUT I do get the feeling she finds my DD a pain, so gets fed up with her all to easily which I'm not happy about.

OP posts:

Squiffy · 23/02/2009 11:00

AP stomped out of room? sounds like you have 3 kids, not 2.

The smacking thing can be fixed really easily by explaining that it is not allowed and is a sackable offence if repeated. But I think there are deeper problems afoot....

Squiffy · 23/02/2009 11:01

Ah, x-posts. See you are already looking at wider picture.

She sounds like my miserable scandinavian disaster. Life is immeasurably better since we replaced her.

Original poster

NewTeacher · 23/02/2009 11:04

Theyoungvisitor - No I never had a conversation about it when she started I assumed she would know not to smack a child.

She is from Germany and I'm thinking her culture is not that different to ours!

Yes I have smacked my DD on her hand but not for trivial things. If she has put herself/someone else in danger then its acceptable

I have told AP that if DD is playing up ignore her and she will calm down dont reason with her as she just yells back at you.

Arghhhhh I am annoyed now.

OP posts:

Supernanny19 · 23/02/2009 11:08

she should have used your way of discipline i.e the naughty step or something but smacking ..thats shocking.

theyoungvisiter · 23/02/2009 11:11

hmm, Germany is not that different but then again, AP's are not Nannys, they aren't trained and often have only their own childhood to draw on as experience. Lots of people do think smacking is acceptable and if she was smacked as a child then she may be one of them.

I'm not saying she was right to do it (I disagree with smacking very much) but just saying that without a wide childcare experience she may not have the understanding of the issue that you do. Personally I would explain my views and give her another chance. If she STILL doesn't fall in with your parenting style then get rid.

However it sounds like maybe she is just not in tune with you in a more general sense?

willowthewispa · 23/02/2009 12:44

If you never told her smacking was unacceptable to you, then how would she know? You need to tell au pairs what is important to you.

Presumably she has had no childcare training, and maybe in her family smacking a misbehaving child's hand is normal - many parents wouldn't see a smack to the hand as a problem. You need to have a talk with her.

Bucharest · 23/02/2009 12:47

No it isn't acceptable, I notice a lot of people seem to think a slap on the hand isn't "as bad" as one elsewhere...I often hear people saying "oh, no, I never hit my child, obviously a slap on the hand is different." er, no.

blueshoes · 23/02/2009 13:14

Smacking hand or any form of smacking is not acceptable. It is in my house rules.

NewTeacher, rather than ask the AP and risk a denial or confrontation, just say you have updated your houserules and go through them with her.

I would also keep an eye on this AP. She does not seem to be temperamentally suited to looking after young children.

Nabster · 23/02/2009 13:17

Tell her you need to talk to her about what happened this mornng and see what she says.

If she knew she wasn't allowed to smack, then she has to go but if she didn't know you should give her a written warning.

Twims · 23/02/2009 13:21

Agree you have 2 choices

Have stern words - say that obviously something happened this morning and that if AP didn't feel she could handle it she should have come and asked for your help. State that you have rules in your house ie naughty step for behaviour etc.
Get rid of her.

Original poster

NewTeacher · 23/02/2009 13:24

Most of the time she is good with the kids and I know they do like her. I do feel she prefers my DS to my DD he has a much easier going nature and is 5 whereas DD will try your patience but she is only 3.

She has never smacked the kids before I'm sure DS would have mentioned it and I have found it odd.

She has seemed a bit moody the last few days and I have asked her if anything was wrong but she says all is ok. Have to admit she is a bit sullen she does laugh as I've heard her when she's watching her tv programs! Wasnt planning on confronting her, was just going to ask her what happened this morning.

OP posts:

Nabster · 23/02/2009 13:31

The fact she doesn't seem to geel with your 3 year old would have me packing her bags tbh.

ingles2 · 23/02/2009 13:31

Do you have a handbook NT? if so, discipline is definitely a page you need to add.
Here's a copy and paste of mine.

The Kids

We hope you?ll become good friends with the boys,?however it is very important that you make it clear from the start that you are an adult and in charge.

It will take bit of time for them to accept you fully but it will help if you?.
Treat them with respect and ask for the same?.
Do not make promises you can?t or won?t keep
Talk to them and listen to their answer.
Be consistent
Deal with sticky behaviour quickly and with humour?ie..if they don?t want to get dressed in the morning,?turn it into a game or a race

Unacceptable Behaviour

The boys are generally well behaved however incidents can happen when they are tired / fed up

Please use your common sense but includes:

Fighting
Pushing
Hitting
Not doing as they are told
Rude or cheeky behaviour

Please explain to them calmly why the behaviour is not acceptable? then?..

Discipline

Step 1: 5 seconds to stop behaviour i.e5?4?.3?.2?.1.
Step 2: Naughty Step?child needs to sit on the bottom step of the kitchen stairs for 6 or 8 minutes depending on age. Use the egg timer and do not talk to them during this time. At then end ask for an apology and a hug. Please warn them of the naughty step before using it.
Step 3: Removal of computer time / tv time / pocket money / special trips depending on severity. Again warn them first.

NEVER humiliate, slap, smack, shake, bite or frighten.

Good Manners

We expect the boys to?

Always say Please and Thank you?.
Sit nicely at the table and use their knife and fork properly.

Please reinforce this?.

Rewards

WE praise constantly for good behaviour ?.
And always encourage their efforts?..
There are stickers in the dining room cupboard for all sorts of good behaviour. Please make us aware if there is very good behaviour.

Obviously, this might not suit you exactly, but you can adapt. You must go through this with your AP

theyoungvisiter · 23/02/2009 13:54

ingles - I am not sure whether I am or that you felt the need to tell your au pairs not to bite your children!!!

willowthewispa · 23/02/2009 13:55

A dad I once worked for bit his 1 year old daughter (cos she bit him first) and seemed to think this was fine, so I would spell it out too!

Original poster

NewTeacher · 23/02/2009 13:58

Thankyou for that Ingles. Its a learning curve I guess.

We have had a discussion re smacking come to think of it as DD hit AP once and she was very angry about it. I spoke with DD in front of AP and explained that she wouldnt like it if AP hit her so she musnt do it either. So AP is aware of my feelings re smacking.

I will deffo use the handbook page on discipline will make it less of an I'm telling you off scenario but lets go through the rules scenario!

OP posts:

Blondeshavemorefun · 23/02/2009 14:13

it is not acceptable for an ap or even a nanny to smack a childs hand UNLESS maybe near a hot pan, but a stern no, dont touch works just as well as a slap imo!!

but agree with some of the posters in that germans do have different views on certain things, and to her a tap on the hand for not doing what she was told may be normal to your ap

if you are generally happy with your ap, then sit down and discuss what happened this morning

and for future ref, if your dd doesnt want to eat breakie - then not a problem, she can wait till other children have finished the meal and she doesnt eat till lunchtime

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