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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Do I really need a doctor's letter?

32 replies

Wispabarsareback · 10/02/2009 13:01

Genuinely seeking views here about what's reasonable and necessary. DD2 (18 months old) has a mild chest infection, for which she has been prescribed antibiotics. She's had several days of feeling unwell, but seems much better today - no temperature, coughing much less, generally perkier. She hasn't been at her CM while she's been unwell - I kept her at home today just to be sure she was really fine, but was thinking I'd plan for her to go to CM as usual tomorrow.

I just had a call from CM telling me that I couldn't bring DD back without a letter from a doctor confirming she was fine 'to participate in normal acivities'. I wouldn't send her back to the CM unless she was better, and I can't see me getting a GP's letter by tomorrow, or even the day after. (When I've sought similar things before, it's taken a day or two for the letter to be available, once an appointment has been made for her to be seen etc.) I wouldn't be expecting the CM to give antibiotics.

Is it really necessary and reasonable for CM to insist on this? It seems like unnecessary bureaucracy to me - why is a doctor's word more valid than mine as DD's main carer?

Interested in your views. Am panicking about how to manage this week's work commitments...

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

bigdonna · 10/02/2009 13:07

sounds abit far fetched i wouldnt dream of asking a parent for a letter the most my mindees stay off is 24 hrs,agter given antibiotics .she will be able to see!!!

bigdonna · 10/02/2009 13:08

i think she can only do this if she thinks child is infectious but youn cant catch a chest infection.

Original poster

Wispabarsareback · 10/02/2009 13:13

Oh she's done it before for non-infectious things! She tells me her 'coordinator' (Nat Childminders' Assoc area coordinator I think) requires it.

She's a bit of a one for sticking legalistically to procedures - in fact I'm convinced she's keener on paperwork than small children! (This is DD2's last week with her - DD's starting nursery in a couple of weeks.)

OP posts:

ilovemydogandMrObama · 10/02/2009 13:14

Your CM wants a sick note? For an 18 month old?

funnypeculiar · 10/02/2009 13:19

Have never been asked to provide a doctors (through 3 childminders, all rated Ofsted outstanding) - sounds a bit paper-wrok crazed to me

bigdonna · 10/02/2009 13:21

i am a cm i do follow rules but i take the childs/parents needs first,i have taken child with chicken pox (she was my only mindee)by choice.i still have exmindees when ill off school as i love to see them.as long as they are not infectious sometimes they are just very tired from coughing at night and just need some tlc.bet your glad shes going to nursery soon,not all cm are like that most of us are very caring and loving.

alibubbles · 10/02/2009 13:26

I have two sick mindies with me today, not so unwell that they shouldn't be here, but nonetheless, unwell and asleep!

I am an O/S ofsted and part of a network, that is rubbish about a certificate!

Schools don't ask for them Miss" too efficient" me thinks!

Chest infection not infectious, Dd had loads as she is asthmatic, no one else ever got one.

Numberfour · 10/02/2009 14:12

sounds to me like she is trying to avoid you bringing your child in for another few days.

Blondeshavemorefun · 10/02/2009 14:49

a sick note for a child

def sounds as if she doesnt want your child, esp as you are leaving

as you CANT catch a chest infection, i dont see the problem in the cm having your dd IF she is happy and no temp etc

Original poster

Wispabarsareback · 10/02/2009 15:04

Yes, I suspect she just doesn't want to have DD2, which makes me sad. But if she doesn't want her, then I don't have the heart to push the point about the doctor's letter - best just to leave it, I think. Leaves me with a slightly bad taste though.

I really had high hopes of this CM - she started looking after DD2 last May, and seemed very loving and caring and enthusiastic at first. But as time has gone on she's become more and more fixated on her various 'procedures', and I just don't feel comfortable with her any more.

OP posts:

ayla99 · 10/02/2009 15:10

I'm not surprised actually, I've thought about asking for a gp's note myself. In the past, I've always trusted the parents assessment, and I rarely turn anyone away. However, this has led to situations where I have had poorly children in my care. And I have had to contact parents to collect their child. Rarely, parents have been deliberately vague about what gp has said or even omitted to give me necessary information (such as when child last vomitted). More commonly, parents can't remember exactly what the gp said, or they didn't think to ask gp when it would be okay to return to childcare.

If I decide its okay to accept a child AND I AM WRONG (I am not a doctor, there is no reason to suppose I am able to make the correct decision on every occasion), I leave myself open to complaints from other parents for putting their child at risk and problems with Ofsted for not providing a healthy environment. If I decline to accept a child, I can be seen to be erring on the side of caution but I may lose the custom of that family if they do not agree with my decision. Its a no-win situation!

So by asking for a GP note, I am following a professional opinion and this covers me in case of parent/Ofsted complaint. And I am not closing my service to anyone who is genuinely healthy enough to attend.

HTH to see your childminders viewpoint.

HateSponge · 10/02/2009 15:20

I've never heard of this (or been asked to provide one by any of the CM's I've used over the years) I would have been literally

Would a GP even be prepared to write such a letter? Ours have enough trouble giving out appointments at less than a weeks notice!

Your CM does seem somewhat paperwork driven possibly a good thing your DD is not there for much longer.....

Ayla - whilst I can see what you're saying, I can remember taking my DC to the GP in the past and asking when they thought said DC should return to CM or school...I never got any other response than 'well thats up to you, see how they are' So its not always that parents don't ask, GPs often wouldnt make any comment!

AtheneNoctua · 10/02/2009 15:27

I would tell her that legalistically speaking, since this is not mentioned in the contract she is not within her legal right to require it. And if she is not available for work in the morning then you will not be obligated to pay her for the day.

It is totally unrealisitic to think a working parent can get the baby to the doctor for a note. And if you can't be sympathetic to the lifestyle of a working parent, then I don't think childminding is the right job for you... unless you specialise in looking after children whose parents don't work.

Original poster

Wispabarsareback · 10/02/2009 15:43

I wish I could Athene. But to be honest I'm a bit intimidated by her, absurd though that is. I don't have any reason to believe she hasn't provided good care to DD2 (and DD1, who she picks up from school several days a week), but there are various things that just don't make me feel comfortable. And I can't fall out with her over this, as I need her to keep picking up DD1 for the moment. (DD1 likes going there, and I don't want her to feel odd about it.)

It's completely the opposite scenario to the one I had with our CM when DD1 was a baby - she was fabulous but utterly chaotic (paperwork - what's that?!), which was maddening in its own way. From the sublime to the ridiculous, or something...

OP posts:

Blondeshavemorefun · 10/02/2009 15:48

good advice athenes, though i can understand what whispa is saying

and would you have to pay for doctors note for a child, as an adult does, i needed one to fly and had to pay £16 for it

Squiffy · 10/02/2009 16:11

She is takign advantage of your good nature. Do you want her to continue to do so or do you want to be treated better?

I would just say that your chidminder 'cousin' (or whatever) says you don't need a certificate and it is not in your contract and not convenient for for either you or your GP for you to run to the dr's when you know your child is better. I would also say that as all nurseries run a system whereby they call you to pick your child up if she turns poorly whilst being cared for amd that this seems a perfectly good compromise for you both.

If you wanted you could pretend your GP had given you a hard time for wasting an appointment to get this note and you are not able to do it again.

JenniPenni · 10/02/2009 16:21

I have been CMing a couple of years and my parents are 99% of the time great with not bringing their kids to me if they are poorly, they know I have to abide by certain regulations regarding illness... if they are unsure they phone me the night before and we have a good chat about them and we make the decision together.

Infections or anything that would harm the other kids in my care is taken seriously and we make responsible decisions ourselves. I have given antibiotics before but that was to finish a prescription, as one should, the child was fine to be in my care.

But there also has to be common sense and reason here. I personally would never ask for a doctor's note, surely mum and CM can chat about the child and decide amongst themselves?

Original poster

Wispabarsareback · 10/02/2009 16:41

JenniPenni I wish you were our CM!

OP posts:

JenniPenni · 10/02/2009 16:54

Aw thanks Wispabarsareback - very kind of you to say!

Key thing in running any business successfully, especially a childminding business that is so personal.. is communication. Both the parent and childminder must talk and communicate - about the good, the bad, the ugly. Everything.

Original poster

Wispabarsareback · 10/02/2009 17:04

You're absolutely right re the importance of good communication - that's where things have gone wrong with my CM. But I'm genuinely baffled about why it's happened - I've done everything I can to try to make communication work, and it's the lack of it that's made me uneasy about our relationship.

There's been a further development: I had a call this afternoon offering DD1 a place at the after-school club after half-term (she's been on the waiting list for months). So our arrangement with this CM will end this week. Probably for the best, but not quite how I'd imagined things. Very different to my previous CM and DD1's nursery - so I'm sure the breakdown of friendly relations can't all be my fault!

OP posts:

nomoreamover · 10/02/2009 19:46

She's annoyed DD is going off to nursery thats all I reckon!

Technically she ought to get some sort of doctors note for something highly infectious like hand, foot and mouth or measles or german measles - but NOT a chest infection....maybe her co ordinator is a bit of a bossy boots and likes her position of POWER?!!!

Sad that some people can't differentiate between the important paperwork and the ridiculous paperwork.........

HSMM · 10/02/2009 20:46

She's probably been stung by a parent not telling her the truth about what the GP said.

I am a CM and I have never asked for a Doctor's not, but I know 'some' parents are economical with the truth.

mamadoc · 10/02/2009 20:55

From the GPs pov also you may find that they refuse to do it! The time and effort of dictating, typing and checking a letter, filing in notes etc plus the wasted consultation is a waste of NHS resources that should be for ill people. The GP is within their rights to charge for providing such a letter as it is outside their duty of clinical care and they might do so in order to deter everyone from expecting this!
It is also not reasonable to ask a GP to state in advance a number of days that a child should be off for. It depends on the individual child and the bug how quickly they get better and depends on the childcare setting what 'normal activities' means. The best I could do if asked would be to say when they don't have a temp, are eating and drinking OK and behaving fairly normally all of which the parent is best placed to judge.

AtheneNoctua · 10/02/2009 20:58

Why don't you tell her that you called the GP to book an appointment, and when you told them that is was not an emergency, they told you it would be next week. (when you want be there any more)

looneytune · 10/02/2009 21:05

Not read whole thread and was going to say that was the biggest load of bull I've heard HOWEVER I agree with HSMM and maybe that's why she's doing it? I've certainly had trouble with parents not telling the truth about illness and it can have a big knock on effect.

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