My AP seems to be ignoring me!!

[VirginBoffinMum]

My current Hungarian AP has been with me for six weeks now. She's 21 and very bright and well-educated, and seems nice enough. Her English is pretty reasonable. The kids like her too.

My problem is that I find I am having to tell her things half a dozen times or more, and even then she still doesn't do them. I am not convinced this is a language problem, and I am starting to tear my hair out. Problems this week have included:

Hiding in her bedroom after bringing the kids home from school, instead of supervising music practice and homework for at least 10 minutes as requsted, and/or engaging with the kids a bit.

Cooking the kids' tea so late they end up going to bed late and then are shattered the next day.

Taking washing out of dryer and crumpling it in a basket for days on end so it needs intensive ironing instead of just folding and putting away.

Repeatedly finishing the milk/bread/pasta/loo roll or whatever without telling anyone, raiding the freezer, or buying some more from the shop (she has a float for this purpose), then complaining there's nothing for tea.

Never tidying up before I come in from work so I end up walking into a house looking like a bomb hit it, with nowhere to sit down, and which I then have to tidy, as she has clocked off, or which the children have to tidy when they are too tired and fractious to do so without tantrums.

Leaving her coat/shoes/gloves/hat strewn around the hall.

Not making sure the kids have their stuff with them when they come home from school, and then hassling me when I am trying to get ready to go to work about the fact that they have no coat/shoes/clean trousers or whatever the next day.

Leaving windows open everywhere when nobody's at home.

It's as though she's just not thinking things through or taking any responsibility for anything. Does anyone have any advice about the best course of action? My DH suggested performance review like we might do at work, and I have done this twice but it seems to have fallen on deaf ears ...

ive never had an AP but to me these things all sound like a mixture of inexperience and laziness. i think you are right to inform agency, but i do think it sounds like an attitude problem that you may never be able to reason with. could you perhaps look for an AP that has a lot of experience or even one who has or has raised a family of their own. i know that some people who have never run a house or raised a family, just literally dont see what needs done in a house. my sister for example(she's 21) has babysat for my son and when i would return she would have forgotten to check on him, let him stay up til he fell asleep somewhere, not tidied any of her mess, and been buying films on sky. but to her, this is completely acceptable as she has never had the full responsibility of running a home or family. i hope you get this sorted soon, as it does sound extremely frustrating and ive no doubt, tiresome.

I know I sshould have said something, but I was actually quite stunned! As I said, we need an AP until July. I am doing a full-time course until then that requires long hours, often leaving at 7am and my husband leaves the house at 5am on alternate weeks, and no local childcare (CM and nurseries) will take children until at least 8am. (We have a CM from lunchtime onwards) So we thought an AP was a good compromise as she can be in the house with the children when I leave (sometimes 8, sometimes 7, sometimes my husband is home until 1pm so she doesn't have to work at all.) This means they can all have a leisurely start, rather than being carted out of the house before 7am, had alternate childcare been available at this time. I thought a nanny (besides being very expensive) would be hard to co-ordinate around shifts.

So, because we needed childcare, we chose someone with experience in this field- I never really considered that she would be so unhelpful in other areas!

Response to the last two posts. I do wonder sometimes if the real issue here is that young people attracted to au pair work are often not the most mature or go-getting of individuals in the first place, which is why the role appeals to them. They unconsciously prefer having the psychological umbrella of someone else paying housing costs and taking responsibility for the big things in life, yet are not inclined or unable to recognise or respect the fact that this is happening.

I have had a couple of au pairs aged around 24 who had good work experience on paper (one of them as a trained Kindergarten assistant of some years' standing) and they were the worst in this regard, self-absorbed, reluctant to pull their weight, slightly careless with other people's possessions, insensitive to my working life and responsibilities (eg barging into my study and demanding advice on train timetables or social events when I was hidden away writing reports on working at home days, phoning me at work and getting me out of meetings to answer incredibly trivial domestic questions, etc).

The best au pair I ever had on the other hand was a very driven 18-year-old who had worked as an ice cream parlour assistant for ten hours a day for a whole summer, and was very focused in everything she did. She's now studying economics and doing brilliantly.

A further factor I have noticed is that young people whose mothers work full time make better au pairs than those who have SAHM or part-time working mums. If the au pair has had his or her mum around all day or a couple of days a week picking up after them, reminding them to do things, and generally mollycoddling them, it comes as a massive shock to find women doing a 'man's' job in terms of hours - as many of us seem to do these days - and they genuinely struggle with conceptualising the mother's lifestyle in relation to the domestic role. This for me explains comments like assuming mums are 'lazy' simply because they don't see them running around after the kids. The other factors are not taken into account in the au pair's understanding of events. For example, I had a French au pair once who said, "I don't know why you need an au pair - my mother had three children and she never had one." When I asked if her mother worked out of the home, the answer was of course no, but the au pair seemed unable to see the relationship between overall workload and need for an au pair or other domestic help.

Anyway, I think this all has a lot to do with their overall attitude, but sadly it's nigh on impossible in my experience to second guess which au pairs will have a bit more understanding and inteliigence in relation to these matters, or life would eb very simple indeed!

ok, I'm back. got to say I don't have an AP at the moment, partly because work is very quiet but also because this sort of attitude is becoming so common in AP's they're becoming impossible to live with.

Boffin / CofT I'm afraid you're both going to have to become much tougher. These girls are here to help you and make your life easier! yes, we want them to be happy, have a good time but not to the detriment of you! what's the point otherwise.

Because AP's are usually young girls and this is their 1st time away from home, and in a foreign country they really quickly slip into the "oldest daughter with benefits" role. you got to remember, would you let your oldest daughter get away with the things AP's do? complaining about food, to the extent you buy special things? probably not... leaving the house unlocked? definitely not

You have to be really clear about exactly what you want doing and when. So get your timetable, AP is working 5 hours today you want her to drop the kids off, hoover up and load the washing machine. She has to do this today, not I'm in the house for 5 hours therefore I'm working. So keep up constant gentle reminders along the lines of, if you're finishing at 5, you need to hoover up before then, do you want to do it now?

Boffin that's great your agency are helping, you've found a good one. If she doesn't buck up ideas, you should try another. but otherwise make sure she has her handbook with her all the time. she should be refering to it constantly that's why you wrote it.

Cup of tea, if yours is great with the kids, I'd try and sort things out. I'd be telling her to clear the plates after dinner etc, I'm sure she'd be doing this at home and. your house is not a hotel! As for food, either she eats what you prepare or you give her some money and takes responsibility for it herself. She is making more work for you if you are making special things for her.

Blimey...What an essay.
If you get a good AP it really is fantastic, but if there are problems, blardy nightmare

Good luck ladies.

"A further factor I have noticed is that young people whose mothers work full time make better au pairs than those who have SAHM or part-time working mums."

That's interesting VirginBoffinMum. That's the case with my (excellent, Hungarian) current au pair - her mum is a lawyer and a single mother - so I am guessing she is aware of the pressures and has always mucked in at home.

I think it was possible to detect her general attitude from her cv and personal statement, though - there was a lot about how she could help to make my life easier and not so much about why she wanted to come to England. In the email dialogue we had before she came she kept suggesting other tasks she could do as well as the ones I listed

She is only our first one though so maybe they often write profiles like that and turn out to be hopeless

I think you're right Boffin.
I also think there's an element, of todays teens and early 20's are used to good times economically, they 'expect" a lot to be handed to them on a plate, without doing much for it. This coupled with the rise of the internet and celebrity culture has created a lot of lazy teens.

OH MY LIFE I AM SORRY YOU ARE GOING THROUGH THIS BUT I HAVE BOYS OF 19 AND 17 AND I LOVE THEM TO BITS BUT WOULDNT TRUST THEM WITH FEEDING THE CAT. WE WENT TO DUBAI RECENTLY AND THE HOUSE WAS LIKE A BOMB SITE WHEN WE GOT BACK, THEY WERE AMAZED AT MY ANGER AS THEY HAD 'spent hours cleaning'.
21 is too young to expect her to do all these jobs, get a childminder or an older nanny or jack in the job and do it yourself...

thebody- I think if you had read recent posts you would realise that myself and VBM are 'doing it ourselves'- and paying someone else for the privilege!

As I have said, she doesn't do many hours, some weeks she doesn't need to work at all. My problem is her lack of respect for our home and her inability to act like an adult living in it, more like another child. I already have a childminder, but I cannot use her at 7am- I need an AP. I just find it so hard because at her age, and a lot younger, I had responsibilities at home- I never treated my own parents with the disregard that she treats my dh and I.

Ingles- I think you are right, I need to be clearer with her (despite reminding her of things over and over). I think we may arrange a performance review meeting before she returns home for Christmas so we are all singing from the same hymn sheet in January.

sorry, didnt mean to take the piss, and i am really sorry for you, it must be bloody awful and terribly frustrating but i honestly cant imagine anyone wanting to voluntarily have a youngster in their house unless they have previously given birth to it...

i stick to my point that 21 is too young and she sees you as a parent figure rather than an employer... granted she sounds like a spoilt brat.. but do you really need child care and help at 7am... couldnt you review your or dhs work schedules, anything would be better than this surely....

The Body - at 21 I was living on my own and had been for 3 years, with no disasters. If your boys don't yet know how to look after themselves then I'm afraid it's probably down to their upbringing. My stepson will probably be like that, he always has his mum cleaning up after him and doesn't even know how to put a cup in the dishwahser.

Also, I've been an au pair and I would never have dared call anyone lazy, nor would I have ignored requests that I carry out my tasks. I'm quite at all of this. I've been advising a friend to take on an au pair for her childcare problems, but I might advise her against it if they're mostly like this.

Brangelina, living on your own is not looking after kids is it, my boys can look after themselves but i wouldnt expect them to look after anyone else, they babysit for my younger kids and are fine, but i think youth is for the young, i also left home at 18 and partied till my 20s, its only when you have kids that you can parent properly.i do think some of the mums are expecting mary poppins and not expecting to pay for it...

Good idea CofT... be blunt. There is no point in not telling her the truth. the only person who loses out is you.I found it really hard for years, you always want to treat them like guests...but they're not... they are "part of your family". After all I've got no qualms telling dh what to do

Oh poo!
ignore my secret santa....
t'is ingles x

cup of tea
July is one hell of a long time to put up with that au pair. Get rid rid rid. It's not unstressful to have the chat but you won't regret it.

thebody I think you're totally wrong. no-one is asking for Mary Poppins, just someone in your home who can remember to lock the doors and push the hoover around.

re that old chesnut: "expecting mary poppins, not prepared to pay for it." the Body: there are loads of threads on this. most people aren't expecting this at all what they are looking for, it appears to me, is someone who is safe and pleasant with their children and able to look after them for a couple of hours a day tops. Clean. Doesn't raid the fridge as though they were the only person in the house. Locks the doors and shows regard for the family's personal property. Doesn't run up phone bills in the hundreds of quids. Treats people as they would expect to be treated, including not giving their host family sanctimonous lectures about their lifestyle(such as how their own mother did it w/o no help.) That sort of thing. Anything else is a bonus. NOt too much to expect from a 21 year old.

x post!

In response to thebody, I do actually have a daughter of 21 (currently at uni) so I know what's reasonable, and when she is here she does lock up the house, cooks us nice meals, and takes the boys down the park or to the cinema now and then. She also works a lot harder for her money in her vacation jobs than the average au pair seems to do. I think if boys trash the house in your absence they have not been properly brought up to respect it and you have been doing too much for them.

As I said before, by 22 I had a degree like my friends, a teaching qualification and a job running a school music department with 12 peripatetic teachers to keep an eye on, so I think it's ridiculous to infantilise 21 year olds and assume they are still children incapable of washing their own pants, picking up after themselves, etc. Youth may be for the young, but that has absolutely nothing to do with taking advantage of other people and getting them to clear up after you because you are essentially lazy and selfish.

I am paying my au pair £80 a week plus room and board, and I expect a bit of help with the school run, some washing and ironing, and giving the kids a baked potato now and then, but I certainly don't expect Mary Poppins. I have a cleaner as well so there isn't that much else for her to do. Amortised up to include her room and board (huge double bedroom in a very expensive area), her wage equates to about £200 a week for 25 hours, which at £8 an hour tax free is bloody fantastic in my view for an unqualified person who has no overheads or transport costs. I don't even have that much disposable income myself.

As a senior lecturer, after tax I earn the same as a nanny does before tax, so that is not a childcare option, plus my kids are too old for a nanny now anyway as they are out at school all day. In our area, there isn't a single childminder and hasn't been for the last decade. Regarding doing it myself, I am an education lecturer in a specialist area, the country paid for me to train, and I think it would be yet another valuable mum lost from the public sector if I did this, so it would be about as wrong as their dad giving up his public sector job, sitting on his backside and claiming benefits instead of working (nobody ever suggests the blokes pack up work, do they??)

So in other words, it would be nice if there was a bit of appreciation for those of us making an effort to do something useful for society whilst supporting young people in their attempt to learn English, rather than this very annoying 1980s-style working mother bashing.

Rant over.

Woo- go VBM! I am a trainee teacher, and it is because I am doing the PGCE that my working/uni hours are completely inflexible, and I am not prepared to give it all up now.

Therefore, I need an AP until July- and I am NOT expecting Mary Poppins. Just an extra pair of hands...

Exactly, cupoftea, we need good teachers and parents make the best teachers of all. Best of British in your endeavours to join the hallowed ranks of the profession.

BTW so busy ranting, forgot latest update, and I know you will be on the edge of your seats ... I have come home to an impeccably tidy house and nicely cooked dinner, with relatively well-behaved children who have done their homework and seem more cheerful than usual.

This is a very good situation and I am really pleased with her. I did suspect she could do it if she pulled her finger out.

These threads are interesting!

I was an aupair myself back in the day (Hamburg, 1989 - 1990) and believe me, I have put myself off ever having an aupair. I wasn't interested in looking after pesky kids or cleaning but wanted to be out drinking and raving most nights, shagging my new, lovely German boyfriend or slagging off our respective employers with other au pair friends over coffee. Before, I get flamed, I admit i was absolutely awful and should have been sent packing!

My DCs nanny is 50 - she does all the ironing, cooks and cleans if she thinks it needs doing (it generally does!). she's great!

Oh Tryharder, you should have had your bottom seriously smacked

Tryharder, I did all that but still managed to be the perfect au pair in the daytime.