Help! What should au pairs get in London? URGENT

[majorstress]

I'm paying £80 pocket money, all food, own room with new tv, dvd and radio. 3 x 3 hours English classes a week, just paid £137 for 12 weeks. Original agreement was this would rise to £100 this month, but hours were from 2:30 to 8 pm, 2 kids one at school one at FULLTIME nursery. She has talked me into letting her knock off at 6:30, and to let her off most of the housework which is ironing. The other housework is done to the minimum, very passive and helpless about everything, doesn't seem to know how to change a bed, or hoover, or cook despite talking about it all the time. I am finding myself working non-stop doing housework as well as a full time job, and failing dismally at coping with either, with continual colds and a back injury. Now she wants me to honor the £100 part of the deal. Am I a mug? a slavedriver? Should I find someone else? Quit my job? Kill myself?

Of course, you have a nanny rather than au pair, which makes a difference.

Well, that's true. But, I don't see why that makes a difference. People who have au pairs who take the kids to a childminder and pick them up are just as dependant on them as I am on a full time nanny.

It just deviates from convention, Uwila.

I can see the rationale in giving a longer notice period, but I doubt that a girl would feel obliged to stick to this if something better came along. And there's isn't anything you could do about it if she just upped and left. So tying yourself down to a long notice period isn't really doing you much good, even if it feels "honourable".

Of course, once a girl is given her notice, she may not be 100% professional about her work and behaviour in that time, and she might just pack her bags and leave anyway.

You make the arrangements for the replacement behind the scenes, and then give the week or two's notice once you have everything set up. I don't see what advantage there is in starting this process once you've given notice and therefore have created a deadline for yourself - what happens if you can't find someone straightaway, or that perfect girl you've found can't come for a few weeks? Then you are really you-know-where without a paddle.

I know, I am not a good manager, or a people person. I prefer machines. Luckily dd1 isn't like me!!!

I got my contract from bestbear website I think, and also I've always had 4 weeks notice both ways myself, so I didn't question it. The paying at the end of 4 weeks is a good idea, I was just used to paying my live out ladies weekly.

I certainly intend to have a perfect replacement lined up, plus a few extras still on my list in case the new one bottles out.

I though the AP/nanny approach would be really great and fun and interesting for us all, but so far I have had 6 months of problems and worries with it-I know, no duh, welcome to the world of British childcare! I thought 2 babies in fulltime work nursery was hard, and I stuck it out thinking that soon the extra cash freed up by state school would mean it was financially worth me working again, and I wouldn't lose my place in the ratrace (the mat. leaves were damaging enough). Meanwhile the ratrace has become really important to me and I feel this is my contribution to the world, really using my talent and training to do good (I work for the NHS, which is desperately short of people like me). (I don't manage people much in my workplace either).

Majorstress, I think that having an au pair / nanny is very different game from traditional manager. You should not be so hard on yourself. And, this is definitely the appropriate place to vent. So, vent away if it helps you better prepare yourself to deal with Miss Inertia when you get home.

You are doing the right thing in lining up the replacement before you send her on her way.

Ameriscot, if she decides to bolt mid month, then I would just keep her first two weeks pay and consider it a draw. I think I still like the 4 weeks notice, although I'm not actually obligated to give her the same notice I ask for. But, the two weeks doesn't put me out all that much.

My first au pair was a learning experience too. Don't beat yourself up. A good au pair/nanny does make life easier. But a bad one makes it worse. Even after my Lidka experience (whom my husband has termed Miss Liddleclothes due to her willingness to advertise her butt cheeks and clevage), I wouldn't go back to a chilminder or nursery for anything.

My alternatives are limited all right.

You know, it is really great to have the mumsnetters to talk to, it has really clarified my mind. I often feel I don't have a friend in the world anymore. I feel a lot less angry in general, when I get home I am more able to cope with everyone, and I have gained I think some insight into what has brought this situation about- and to a head-I would have put up with it MUCH longer if I hadn't developed this back injury, which has showed starkly that I am holding everything together in our home and family, nearly single handed, body, mind and soul. Next time I can twist around, I am going to give myself a pat on the back for the little things that HAVE worked, and try to forget the mistakes for now.

Thanks all even people who I P£$% off (Isnt; that even MORE annoying, PWIPOs?)

The most important thing, majorstress, is to learn from your mistakes.

My first au pair had a lot in common with yours, and the biggest (but not the only) mistake I made was to let it go on for far too long (we finally sacked her 10 weeks after major alarm bells started ringing). Since then, the agency I used said that you should give them no more than 3 weeks as a trial, and if they aren't what you hope for, then you let them go. It sounds harsh, but given our experience, it also sounds right.

Chances are that if the family isn't happy with the au pair, then the au pair isn't happy either. If the job is terminated sooner rather than later, bad feelings and words shouldn't creep into the relationship, and the au pair can leave with hopefully a decent reference.

The au pair I have now (she's been here a week) is an absolute dream - exactly what you think an au pair should be like. I hope it continues!

I think Ameriscot is right about cutting them loose sooner rather than later. Another benefit is that your kids won't have gotten so attached to her when she goes.

Majorstress - I no longer post on Mumsnet but have been lurking on this thread and can no longer hold-off on my experience. Yours is so so very similar to mine. I had a Polish au pair last Sept who was just like yours - the 7 weeks she was with us was the longest of my life. Every single day I had to give her explicit instructions, even documented on the kitchen wall, what to do and she still got it wrong. The english lessons ring a bell as well - she just wanted money for this, money for that and then had a cheek to complain about the number of hours she was working. Every single day I went to work fuming and thought I would have a breakdown. But thanks to Ewila, she made me realise that there would be light at the end of the tunnel.

And boy, what a shining light that is. I have a wonderful, wonderful Canadian Au Pair. She is only 18 years old but she has a two year visa to stay with us. She is the everything the old au pair isn't - a big sister to my 2 dds, part of the family, excellent cook, lively, happy, willing to go shopping, a friend to us all, speaks english, is used to all mod-cons. Ok the house isn't the cleanest but that isn't our priority. Happy Mum = Happy Family is my rule. Since she's been with us - 1 month now, I haven't had a single screaming fit (at the a/p or the kids or my dh) - amazing if you knew me.

I found out about her on aupairworld.net. However, I was very explicit about what we were looking for and the fact that dd2 is a handful. I wanted someone who could control her and not have a screaming argument with her every morning like the old a/p. My questions really did weed out the honest from the easy-lifers. Mind you, at one stage I thought I would get no-one as they seemed to scare everyone off. But I managed to find the right one in the end. Whilst its easy to get someone already in the UK, I personally wouldn't approach it this way. I built up a rapour with our a/p over email and telephone (using call18866.co.uk - 2p a minute.

I'll go back to lurking but please, please don't give up - you'll find the right person in the end.

21stC: your experience is very similar to ours. Awful Polish au pair, followed by a lovely western (Luxembourg) girl, 19 years old. She knows how to load a dishwasher, whereas my Polish au pair still refused to learn after 5 months. She is great with my girls - actually plays with them, and looks over their schoolwork, does their hair etc.

This au pair is only with us until the summer, and I am going to look for a Canadian girl after that. I have seen some great profiles on Great Aupair, and with control over the timings, I am confident that we will be able to have someone in place for the start of the new school year.

Oh my god 21, did you put the instructions in Sheet protectors and make her tick everything off???? like some insane stepford wife? THat is exactly what this has turned me into.

ok you two have got me out of my lurking corner....yes really - every Sunday evening I had to do a chart for the weekly menu - down to recipe/ingredients; a list for the girls itinerary (the same every week apart from parties/babysitting), etc, etc. My dd2 loves it now - she's got loads more space to hang her pictures. I can so relate to you majorstress - I was you last September. As everyone else has said, once you get rid of her, a cloud will lift. I had a period of 6 weeks before our new a/p started and although manic (our childminder pulled out all the stops to help us) it made me realised how insane things had become whilst the old a/p was with us. If you make that decision now, you really will feel 100 times better.

Ameriscot you've hit the nail on the head - you need to make sure you have someone who is used to mod-cons (again in my questions). I was speaking to someone just as I was having my problems and he swears by Austrian au pairs and will no longer have any other nationality. He even has to tell them to take a break (something I can now relate to - but was surprised at the time).

Please can I put in a word in the defence of Eastern/Central European girls? Most of them (huge generalisation, I know, but flat sharing is often not an option) live at home until they get married still. Their mothers (another huge generalisation coming up) do most things for them - generally treat them as children until they do leave home. If you are lucky Mama/Mamusia will have taught them to cook/clean etc. But don't count on it. Dishwashers can be alien things and it might take them a while to learn to stack the thing. And some people never learn anything, I know.

Find yourself someone new. They are out there and are not all Katkin the Sofa Gherkin, Inertia the Gasper, Vandalina the Book Wrecker. Salaries are so low in the new EU countries that girls/women are more than happy to come and live in the west and earn a bit more than they did at home (my au pair's friend was paid 250 euros a month in Czecho and she was a teacher, now she earns 500 euros a month, has better accommodation and is learning French as well).

Personally, I'd rather employ an Eastern European woman who has, say, raised her own family (like Uwila's and a previous nanny of mine) or who has been part of a larger extended family and has spent a lot of time minding small siblings/cousins etc than an NNEB straight out of college who knows all the theory, but can't play peekaboo with your baby.

I know that is probably generalising again, and I would guess that my preference for an Eastern European is because I have spent a large chunk of my adult life there. Even if I was treated like the Whore of Mokotow by my neighbours because I lived with my boyfriend which was unheard of in 1980s Poland.

It think you're right Tanzie, this is a generational thing, and in my opinion a family size thing too, rather than a national characteristic. I also had a good impression of Eastern European women-the ones I know are a bit older, had lived independently and were not the one child or the baby in a big family. They know that life is not easy. If they don't know how something works, they figured it out, or asked someone until they get it right. But I think that was just a too-small sample.

My REAL mistake was panicking and just taking the 3rd one on the list when 1 and 2 fell through and left me without childcare, we were talking me taking leave without pay in a workplace where someone was sacked for being ill last year (don't ask). I didn't check the references properly, and I tried to co-opt DH into helping, so it turned out that the crucial reference, the last one who she worked for for only a few weeks in south London, I didn't know about until afterwards, and he can't remember speaking to her. So that fell through the cracks. The other references were from her friends really. DH also spoke to her at lenght and was also fooled by the much closer accent the Hungarians have than the Poles. She had lots of handy catch phrases too, that don't mean anything. Also her family situation: only after Inertia arrived I discovered that her dad had moved out when she was a baby, her young half-sister never visited or stayed with her, mum had never remarried and clearly doted on her, to the extent of over-protecting her. I have nothing against single devoted mums at all, but I need someone who can look after her "ownself" before I entrusted my own home and family to her.

I think I did the best I could under the circumstances, but all the same I am going to get someone better soon-I have already checked up more on some people than I did on her. I can't afford to be hasty and just kick her out, and some of my investment has paid off, in that she is doing more without being asked. The children themselves have got so bored that they are demanding more of her-she does respond to direct orders, just not standing orders! Her inertia means she won't take them out in the street, which in her case is good as she might let one be run over.

Now, everyone, which cowardly lies should I dream up to tell her when I give her the sack? NO, NO I don't want anything sensible like the truth-she might get nasty or even more depressed. The more fantastic the better- I want her to go on her Paddy's Day 17 March flight home which she has already booked (planning to leave me for 3 weeks over Easter, by the time she asked to book it I didn't care anymore), feeling she has done a job for 5 months, earned lots of money and taken lots of English classes, and now can go home to mummy. AND NOT COME BACK!!! Because her room will already be occupied!!yippeee even if it is my mother.

If you still have her by then, then does sound like an ideal, and non-confrontational, way to end your relationship. But six weeks is a long time if thing's get more strained.

I can't believe you are having a lot of trouble identifying replacements. My job is total pants compared to yours and I am getting 6 or 8 enquiries every day, of which at least half of them are worth follow-ups.

Well, under the circumstances and the fact that you think she might get nasty on news that she is no longer needed, I would dismiss just before she leaves (but allowing her enough time topack everything she has brought with her, which I assume is a matter of hours or maybe a day). Then, say you have a two week notice period, she'll be at home for those two weeks anyway and you won't have to worry about your house.

What does your contract say about fair dismissal? For example, mine outline a procedure of verbal warning, written warning, then dismissal. If the the children's safety is in questions, then immediate dismissal (no 4 week notice) is allowed. This is how and why Lidka departed on the day. I could have sighted numerous occasions upon which DD's safety was in question, not the least of which was open bedroom windows on the first floor that DD was more than capable of climbing out of -- scared the sh1te out of me.

Anyway, I sujest checking what is permitted in the contract. You could perhaps have a formal contract review with her and put in writing the things which she is not doing (like swimming). The gives you the verbal warning, the written warning, and then of course you are ready for 'good bye'.

Lidka was very spiteful. She did not understand that her departure was her fault, which it was. After she got back to Poland, she sent a few e-mails that got a bit nasty. Even threatened to go to court in Poland. She had no grounds and her dispute is over some £60, which she she claims never recieved. But, I have proof of having written the cheque. Sorry to go off on my own story here. I just wanted to warn you that she might get nasty, and I therefore believe you should do everything to cover your own butt even if you think you'll never need to.

"Sujest"? OMG, I'm starting to spell in Estonian English...

By the way, when I checked current nanny's reference it was an English couple who are living in Estonia. She told me that she had hired a few Estonians in her home, and they were all really good, dedicated, hard working, etc. She thinks it's an Estonian trait. So, you might like to look at Estonians.

Or, if you want, I could ask nanny if she might know of anyone who would like to be an au pair. Let me know if I can help.

Thanks! I would rather just wimp out and give her the months notice agreed, with some excuse like I have to quit my job because of my back (this is looking like it might come true). She hasn't really done anything to merit on the spot dismissal, like be drunk or anything like that. She's nice really and I don't want to destroy her, she just needs to grow up a bit more, and I need someone who is already "all growed up" to help me this year, not another kid to baby along.

One problem is I don't think Inertia will be able to transport all her stuff-she brought more at Xmas and also had a big bag with the last lady that we collected with her with a great hassle in October from south London (we live in the north so that was an extra hours driving through jams). So there is a good chance she will find the new person in her place, my mother is only an emergency option as she will cost more than a month's au pair salary just to get over here, and she doesn't swim either!!!

I have got several fab sounding candidates Ameriscot, and so far none have said either start me now or I will take another job, butI will ditch Inertia if that happens and I really love them. Most at the moment want to start in June after graduating. I think your job isn't pants at all, your 5 look adorable!!!, for someone who is really trying to prove they love kids and want to devote their working life to them, or at least try it out. Sometimes I wish I could have had more kids, but I'm not cut out physically or emotionally.
There's one currently house mother to 40 11 year old boarding school boys, (wonder what attracted her to my 2 demure girlies photo singing xmas carols ) but my salary offer put her off I think. The one I'm in love with now is German and wants to be a paediatrician, awaiting entrance to med school this Oct or next year is more likely, has au paired in US (for handicapped boy) and UK and her own parents also foster kids, which my aunt does so I know a bit about that-it is tough! and means she has seen it all. So this will be a picnic in comparison, for her, and ref check out so far-looks like we have some vavavoom here . Wish me luck.