Is my baby’s childminder being unreasonable?

[MissDutch]

Since going back to work in August, my 11 month old has been with a childminder a couple of days a week and has had on and off sniffles and cold symptoms. The days where she’s had a high temperature / isn’t herself, we’ve kept her off. We’ve sent her in if she’s in good spirits but has a slight cough cold. Her cough seems to have progressed and she has been a bit phlegmy. I messaged the childminder last night to let her know and she said she can’t take her (fair enough). She then messaged and said to not send her in if she’s had an unsettled night either (she isn’t a great sleeper). She said she has other children to look after and she doesn’t enjoy the activities in the day as much if she hasn’t slept well. Is this fair? I still have to go to work after an unsettled night. I understand sickness to some degree but surely you can send your child in if they’re a little bit cranky? She’s teething at the moment so unsettled nights are happening more often than not. It would be great to get another view on this..

Well, there’s a surprise.

It is fairly normal to not be able to nap in a noisy room with lots of toys, activities and stimulation. I would actually say that’s totally normal and not some sort of failing on the part of the child who can’t do so.

Who said anything about the failing on the part of the child? I purely said it’s great if a child learns to nap in different scenarios. When someone has multiple children, do you expect the older siblings to stay in the house the whole time just incase the youngest needs multiple naps in a cot? It would be bizarre if you did. When an early years setting supports a child to be able to nap in a variety of places it also has huge benefits for the parents and older siblings.

When mine were small, my youngest needed numerous naps but I also had a very physical and excitable toddler. I wasn’t going to keep my eldest cooped up all day and I wanted him to experience play groups, sing and sign, tumble tots etc. My youngest learnt to nap on the go as invariably these things took place when she needed a nap. The ability to do so isn’t as horrifying as you seem to think it is.

Also, many nurseries operate from one large room, what do you suggest children who need to nap do in those circumstances?

if, as a parent, you think a child should be instantly attended to without having to share someone’s attention with other children then perhaps a Nanny would be better suited.

I do have multiple children. We manage. Sometimes that does mean DD is woken from a nap earlier than she’d like to be or has to wait longer than ideally she would, and that’s all OK and normal, but their needs are equally factored in. I certainly don’t expect her to wait until 2pm for a nap.

There is a difference between little babies who generally do sleep on the go a bit easier and babies of around 9 months plus and toddlers who are often interested in the world around them. I know that no matter what techniques you used my DD would not fall asleep in a pram at a busy playgroup. So childminders are not right for us. Others make a difference choice which is fine.

Haha. If I had a pound every time a child did something they 'would never' do at home, I could retire a millionaire

Well indeed - like eat vegetables and nap without a fight! I do accept that but I do also think you have a sense for who your child is for want of a better turn of phrase. DD is a good sleeper and a good napper, but at fifteen months she does need a bit of quiet. She’d just be way too interested in the playgroup to sleep!

‘We manage. Sometimes that does mean DD is woken from a nap earlier than she’d like to be or has to wait longer than ideally she would, and that’s all OK and normal, but their needs are equally factored in’

This is what happens in a childminder setting too 🤷🏼‍♀️. Yes, the 2pm nap is a rather odd one, most of the childminders I know do nap just after lunch for children who need a dedicated sleep in a cot, the older children have activities based around their likes, developmental stage, abilities and any needs of that particular day.

I’m not even sure what we’re arguing about - that different people choose different childcare settings based on what best suits them?

For me I prefer DD not to manage, things work much better when the day is set up and managed according to her needs, so she can sleep when she wants to and wake up when she wants to. Others make different choices of course.

All children will obviously have a day with teeth or similar when they do not nap or settle...no matter where they go to sleep....but no I've never had a child not sleep in a buggy if we are out as a usual thing. Maybe I have the knack who knows but then I've had children who parents can't get to bed at night and been able to sort it out with a few evening visits to their homes. Often it's not trying the same thing for long enough...when we're tired we tend to give in on what we're trying and start something else.

Not every setting of any type of care is exemplary but your assuming childminders can't look after children properly because they go out and a nursery....which had more children per adult and has to spread those people over areas such as garden, nappy changing, sleep and messy play as well as general play ...can give more attention to routine than someone with 3 children....how exactly does one person rock or feed 3 under ones at the same time? Let alone rock one, feed one and play with one if they all have different routines....much easier if you have a baby a 2 and a 3 year old who can play supervised whilst you see to baby. What your actually saying is a mother of 3 must be depriving 2 of her children at all times.

At 15 months babies are dropping the am sleep unless forced to have them...ie put in the dark...they have generally dropped at least 3/4 days of am nap in favour of one longer early lunchtime one.

DONT send her unwell, but after a cranky night why not? If that was the case, babies that age would hardly ever be in childcare.

Thanks, I’m aware. The OPs baby isn’t fifteen months. And of course most childminders look after children properly. There is a huge grey space between ‘I don’t think this setting is what I’m looking for’ and ‘they won’t look after her properly.’

I would actually feel more open to childminders if the ones on here didn’t insist they were all things to all people and acknowledged some of the drawbacks. Something like - yes, we can’t be as flexible with routine as nursery based settings, but here are some of the brilliant things we do offer’

Unfortunately, you were pretty dismissive from your first comment and no matter what reply you received you seemed intent on vilifying childminders. Your presumptions that Jannier left a child to cry n a buggy when they mentioned they do gradual withdrawal, for example, wasn’t going to help anyone. Each type of setting has its pros and cons but it does seem that you are pretty closed minded when considering anything other than a nursery which is a shame. I could sing all day long on the wonderful things a childminder can provide, much the same as a nursery could about their setting. It doesn't mean that they are stating they’re all things to all people. When you essentially insult a profession then yes, you will face opposition 🤷🏼‍♀️

Vilifying childminders is absolute nonsense and childish nonsense at that.

Childminders are often pushed as the preferred option on here and especially for babies, I’ve explained why it wouldn’t personally be for me and have said repeatedly that I recognise others make different choices and that’s fine.

And that’s ‘vilifying’? Seriously?

If my child hadn't been able to go to child care after a night of not sleeping well she wouldn't have gone anywhere until she was well past 3! How ridiculous. She also had colds/snuffles from October to spring. In fact she is now 14 and this is the first year we have got this far into the autumn without a cold! I know I have just jinxed myself!

Honestly depends what "cranky" means?! If it means, your daughter isn't showing her enthusiasm and enjoyment of every activity the childminder presents, then the childminder needs to lower her expectations or you need to find a childminder with more realistic expectations.

However, "Cranky" could be a nice way of saying your daughter will cry on the side lines unless she is sat with the childminder doing one of her favourite activities. Obviously sometimes the childminder's focus will need to be the physical care or preferred activities of other kids. On days your daughter will usually cry when doing these activities, or when she is not the one being changed etc, then she needs to be with you or with another one-to-one carer.

What do you mean by flexible? Nursery won't be there an hour after finishing time because you've broken down or drive to yours to sit with lo while you rush to hospital, they won't take your lo to experience walks in woods, farms etc on a weekly basis or be there for 11 years or more. They can't offer a stable one to one....the closest is a key worker normally used mainly for paperwork and not to be the primary worker on a physical or emotional basis.
Yes we have drawbacks....some take holidays but not all. Occasionally they can be ill..
But as they are self employed few cancel for minor stuff and many don't work alone or can signpost to others your child is familiar with.
As I work as an assessor in childcare I can tell you nursery tends to be very rigid in timings like meals and naps and some even nappy changes I don't get why you think a childminder can't accommodate a routine but a nursery can honestly task one member of staff to sit in a babies sleep room with just one child leaving another to look after 5 under 1s or are 3 babies forced to sleep at the same time?

Gradual withdrawal is done by putting baby down sitting next to them with a gentle hand touching them after a few days you can generally stop using the hand as child sees you and is reassured then over a few more days you can move further away. It is very gentle not leaving a child to cry and can be done in a cot, sleep mat or buggy. Obviously with any situation including at home and nursery if there is more than one child you may have to see to another child quickly....personally I set them up with activities close by. Settling is done over 2 initial parent attended meetings then an hour, 3 etc building up to cover a sleep, a meal then both at the child's pace. It generally takes 4/5 visits without parents before child does a full day. Once baby can sleep in a pushchair you can get them to sleep when out.
Routines are good but they don't have to be quiet and dark.
I do not leave baby's crying in pushchairs that's insulting.

In 30 years I've never had a child who didn't sleep in a pushchair if a sleep was needed when we were out, similarly the ones needing dark, white noise, cuddle to sleep etc have all transitioned in a week or so using gradual withdrawal.

Ditto @jannier

I've always as a nanny then a mum made sure a baby /toddler is used to being moved about and sleep where/when they need

Whether buggy - car - cot

And will transfer from all the above as what I've always done