Is my baby’s childminder being unreasonable?

[MissDutch]

Since going back to work in August, my 11 month old has been with a childminder a couple of days a week and has had on and off sniffles and cold symptoms. The days where she’s had a high temperature / isn’t herself, we’ve kept her off. We’ve sent her in if she’s in good spirits but has a slight cough cold. Her cough seems to have progressed and she has been a bit phlegmy. I messaged the childminder last night to let her know and she said she can’t take her (fair enough). She then messaged and said to not send her in if she’s had an unsettled night either (she isn’t a great sleeper). She said she has other children to look after and she doesn’t enjoy the activities in the day as much if she hasn’t slept well. Is this fair? I still have to go to work after an unsettled night. I understand sickness to some degree but surely you can send your child in if they’re a little bit cranky? She’s teething at the moment so unsettled nights are happening more often than not. It would be great to get another view on this..

I would definitely talk to your childminder about what she means and ask for a reminder of her sickness policy I personally don't see why she can't have after a disturbed night.I ask my parents to tell me at drop off or even txt before so I can re plan my day if possible.If not then they accept their little one may have to sleep.in buggy whilst out instead of in the cot.Im always amazed at those who can get multiple children.at the same time.i currently have 2 x2yr olds and a 1yr old lucky to get a 10min overlap.Generally amongst my friends I can't think that any of us would refuse after a disturbed night

Yes, a childminder has an area for a child to nap but cannot always stay home to use the area all day every day. I have an area but we are out and about in the mornings. Children can nap in the buggy or the car but I won’t cancel trips out as it’s not fair on the other children. Occasionally we may stay home but otherwise dedicated naps in a cot are after lunch. I’m more than capable of caring for tired children but also have to consider the needs of the other children in my care.

You have every right to ask what she really means by "cranky" because it's a very vague term! She could mean "isn't extremely cheerful and bouncy all the time and doesn't seem thrilled about every activity presented to her". She isn't a very good childminder, if she can't deal with 11 month old who doesn't what to join in everything. How much choice of activities are there? I mean, my son is now 11, but from what I remember, when he went to a childminder, there would be a few activities she'd try and get all the children to join in, but frequently when I picked him up, there would be two or three activities happening. I would also say she isn't very good if she can't facilitate a two nap day.

Having said that, if she means "there are long periods where your child will cry if I don't hold her", then yes having her in childcare is a problem. No nursery or childminder is going to be set up to facilitate one-to-one for long periods, so you need to get your daughter happier playing independently before using a group childcare setting.

It depends what you're looking for some people want a home environment and a normal family type group it's not natural for us to be in an age group or held back by our birthdays children learn from older children naturally. It's nice to know the person who is actually looking after your child and that they have the same ethos as you the key worker system in nursery isn't like that. Other parents want an institutionalised environment and children to stay in one place.
I've had lots of parents say they now wished they had used a childminder for their first.

Nurseries and preschools local to me have been unable to open on occasions and seem to regularly ask parents who aren’t working to keep their child home because they don’t have the staff to run at full capacity. If a staff member is ill they can’t find cover for them as there is a staffing crisis at the moment. Also, large group settings have minimal days out if any at all so whilst they’ve got decent resources and a good outside space they don’t tend to go out into the wider environment so much. Childminders also have a huge amount of opportunities for development and great outdoor spaces as they follow the EYFS the same as a group setting, they’re also inspected in the same way. Children who nap at a childminder’s are also far more likely to be in a room by themselves so much more able to have a quiet area to sleep in without being disturbed by the other children. Nurseries can also be very awkward in accepting children if they feel the child shouldn’t be there so it’s swings and roundabouts.

I wanted my kids to go to a childminder as knew her house would be like their second home, I also knew they would form strong bonds with the childminder and the environment was far more relaxed and nurturing.

There’s pros and cons to each and both need to be respected in the same way.

This is why I chose nursery … more resource and facilities to adapt to the children’s needs. Also age group related groups so they aren’t trying to get an unhappy teething 11 month old to fit into the same schedule as the 6mth old or 3 year old …. My son dropped naps early so would go in the older age group at nap time - a friends needed more so went in with the little ones for an extra nap in the day.

Honestly this is where I do think the childminding model can be problematic. A lot of babies at 11 months won’t nap in the pushchair, it isn’t like having a younger baby where they’ll sleep anywhere. My 3 month old DD fell asleep at a party with screaming children, music and flashing lights: eight months later and that wouldn’t happen!

The childminding model is just based on family life - the 3rd baby in a family has to adapt.

The third baby in a family has to adapt but so does the first and second.

No baby should be forced to stay awake for hours to fit in with preschoolers naps. And especially not if you’re paying for it.

A sleep area when they are in but they cannot deprive other children of a balanced day because one child needs to nap so just like if you have a family and need to go out in the morning baby sleeps in the pushchair. Most babies start at around one and naturally transition to one after lunch nap.

In 30 years I've never had a child who didn't sleep in a pushchair if a sleep was needed when we were out, similarly the ones needing dark, white noise, cuddle to sleep etc have all transitioned in a week or so using gradual withdrawal.

But you're not paying for 1 to 1 care your paying for group care....I've been in many nurseries that don't let the children sleep out of scheduled after lunch nap...so at least a pushchair morning nap and afternoon indoor bed nap is giving 2 naps....what would you do if your 3 year old had to go to nursery? Sorry babies asleep ill collect/drop later.

That’s kind of the point @jannier 😅

Firstly, there is a difference between a drop off at nursery which doesn’t take the whole morning and attending a playgroup, which in this instance does.

Secondly all this ‘I haven’t had a child in thirty years’ is a bit - it suggests to me that the child is left in the pushchair until they cry themselves to sleep which is a shame.

It is group care but within that there has to be some allowance for individual needs and that’s not always possible with babies, toddlers and preschoolers. I think most parents are in agreement that balancing needs is the hard part. I only have one day a week with both mine at the moment due to preschool and I know my younger one doesn’t get much rest on that day but that’s okay because the following day she is at nursery and can sleep as much as she likes (or as little.)

I know there is often a push to use childminders on here especially for babies but to me this is the drawback, especially for babies - that the structure of the childminders day is based around preschoolers and toddlers and not a baby.

How on earth have you taken Jannier’s comment to mean a child is left to cry themselves to sleep?

all transitioned in a week or so using gradual withdrawal.

If they are put in a pushchair to nap because the other children are at a group then I can imagine they aren’t being tended to and that’s also what I’ve witnessed when out and about.

We like what we like. As evidenced some people like that, I don’t.

The childminder is being completely unreasonable. A 2pm nap at that age is crazy - i sent my son to nursery at 11 months and requested 2 naps a day, then at 12/13 months moved to 1 nap (which was probably a bit early) but the 1 nap is at 12.30 not 2pm (for all the similar age kids) and my son still struggles a little with being awake from 7/7.30 - 12.30. As for when the babies don't come in, if you let her dictate those sorts of terms you might as well stop paying her frankly and just look after him your baby yourself/quit your job... babies absolutely go into childcare when a bit cranky/with colds (and often it perks my son up as he now enjoys nursery). A genuine illness related to a fever, rash or diarrhea tends to be what sends them home.

So you’re presuming that transitioning and gradual withdrawal means leaving a child to cry? Perhaps that’s what you might do but don’t put those assumptions on someone else!

I am presuming that gradual withdrawal isn’t best done in a group setting in a pushchair yes.

I’ve done gradual and gentle withdrawal, and don’t leave them to cry, the children are attended to. A child can be left to cry in a cot at nursery because the staff are dealing with other children. The difference is, most people don’t see this whereas Childminders are more in public view and under more public scrutiny. If a child can adapt to sleep in more situations that benefits both the child and their parents. The ratio of adult to child is the same across settings, being in a nursery doesn’t automatically mean a child gets more attention and vice versa.

Not in a playgroup. And yes the ‘but nurseries’ - we all get to choose what feels most comfortable for us as parents. I’m not comfortable with pushchair naps in a noisy hall so opted for nursery. Others make different choices. In this instance the child’s best interests are not being taken into account, I would hope that’s something we can all agree on.

Never? Really? My baby has been a reliable buggy napper but he has had plenty of days where he's skipped a buggy nap despite being tired. I'm astonished that you've never had a single instance

Sleeping in a pushchair does not mean crying to sleep where did that idea come from? You rock them, sit with them or whatever is needed to comfort them just as you would in a cot. Nursery have sleep rooms but as a member of staff has to be in that room they can't dedicate one staff member to permanently be in there for one child so no they don't sleep "whenever they want" if they don't have a sleep room children sleep in the main playroom so again not quality sleep for one amidst music time. It's perfectly possible for baby to sleep while you look after one toddler and to provide stimulating activities for all children including baby....that is part of the inspection.
Obviously you don't have experience of looking after multiple children or childminders.

Yes you can if need be the toddler doesn't need you next to them the whole session you can observe from a distance whilst being near baby and just support toddler as needed....most will have cracked the naps in settling in though so you don't do outings in settling.

Jannier, this isn’t aimed at you but any thread where someone is concerned about childminders have MN childminders professing that their exemplary, indeed, over and beyond care avoids any pitfalls of this sort of setting and I do take it with a pinch of salt. It stands to reason that in a mixed age setting (and at this age there’s a huge difference between even six and nine months) things like routines are going to be out of sync and for me that’s the disadvantage I don’t want.

For others, the advantages they perceive to come from this override disruptions and that’s fine too. But there are drawbacks and advantages to both settings, it’s just which one works best for children and families.

No, it’s not something we ‘can all agree on’ , a child having the ability to be able to nap in various scenarios is fantastic. At a nursery children can disturbed by other young ones crying and having a disturbed nap. Each setting has its pros and cons but you seem intent on vilifying childminders and essentially saying they don’t have the child’s best interests at heart and are happy to leave a child crying unattended. Some children settle best at a larger setting whilst others settle better in a small family type setting. Just because you have your own views on childminders does not give you the right to be so dismissive about them and not give them the same respect as a nursery has. Childminders have to follow the same rules and regulations, they have to deliver the EYFS just as a nursery does, they have the same ratios and are inspected the same way.

you have formed your opinions on a snap shot of what you have seen as, like I said Childminders are more in public view. You may see a child crying in a buggy as the childminder is having to deal with another child. The only reason you haven’t seen the same with a nursery is because they’re within their setting which the general public don’t tend to see so much, they’re not out and about ad a childminder is. The ratios are the same and sometimes that one person has to leave a child upset briefly to tend to another child.